Shattered Italians

[Preuss]

My corps filled with the Italian motorized units was shattered a few turns ago...do the buggars come back?
I know the Slovenians come back...but it doesn't seem to happen with the other allies

cheers,

Gary

[Mark_BookGuy]

Originally posted by Preuss
My corps filled with the Italian motorized units was shattered a few turns ago...do the buggars come back?
I know the Slovenians come back...but it doesn't seem to happen with the other allies

cheers,

Gary

Do you really want them back? They're just easy targets for Ivan. (If in doubt, pick on the German allies:) )

[Montenegro]

Originally posted by Mark_BookGuy


Do you really want them back? They're just easy targets for Ivan. (If in doubt, pick on the German allies:) )

Preuss,

You gave Mark the ultimate lead in. I will say, who were the most adept at hands in the air, the French or the Italians? I really enjoy their wine and cuisine, though.

Use these boys in the Crimea or for rear guard lines. Don't do as Paulus did. I'm sure you've heard of Stalingrad...

Regards,

Montenegro

[Mark_BookGuy]

Originally posted by Montenegro


Preuss,

You gave Mark the ultimate lead in. I will say, who were the most adept at hands in the air, the French or the Italians? I really enjoy their wine and cuisine, though.

Use these boys in the Crimea or for rear guard lines. Don't do as Paulus did. I'm sure you've heard of Stalingrad...

Regards,

Montenegro

In all fairness to the French, a number of their units did fight well. Just like the Russian campaign, there are a number of myths about German "invincibility" in France. In fact, the French lost the campaign more than the Germans won it (like the Orioles losing the World Series to the Pirates - was it really possible??). A great analysis of the French paralysis in 1940 is in Ernest May's Strange Victory (New York: Hill and Wang, 2000).

The poor Italians were hampered by near-feudal industrial organization. There were some good Italian units (not many to be sure), but anyone would be surrendering quickly if they were stuck in the desert with no food or water. If I was a light infantryman getting rolled by KVs I'd also be running for hills faster than Jed Clampett. The Italian navy was actually pretty good but rarely had enough gas to get out of the filling station. Macgregor Knox's Hitler's Italian Allies (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2000) is a tragicomedy. You don't know whether to laugh or cry. I think my favorite story is the Minster of the Navy approving the installation of broken prop shafts on battleships -- they were made by his family. Gotta love them Italians!:)

[Montenegro]

Originally posted by Mark_BookGuy


In all fairness to the French, a number of their units did fight well. Just like the Russian campaign, there are a number of myths about German "invincibility" in France. In fact, the French lost the campaign more than the Germans won it (like the Orioles losing the World Series to the Pirates - was it really possible??). A great analysis of the French paralysis in 1940 is in Ernest May's Strange Victory (New York: Hill and Wang, 2000).

The poor Italians were hampered by near-feudal industrial organization. There were some good Italian units (not many to be sure), but anyone would be surrendering quickly if they were stuck in the desert with no food or water. If I was a light infantryman getting rolled by KVs I'd also be running for hills faster than Jed Clampett. The Italian navy was actually pretty good but rarely had enough gas to get out of the filling station. Macgregor Knox's Hitler's Italian Allies (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2000) is a tragicomedy. You don't know whether to laugh or cry. I think my favorite story is the Minster of the Navy approving the installation of broken prop shafts on battleships -- they were made by his family. Gotta love them Italians!:)

Mark,

I'm not surprised about the naval nepotism and subsequent folly of it all. Heck, if people want to beat the French up about the Maginot Line, history does repeat itself...the Atlantic Wall???

BB: That "We Are Family" stuff with Willie and the boys was quite the Zeitgeist, huh? I can't remember, was Dave Parker on that '79 team? I remeber that the fans in Pittsburg used to chuck batteries, beer, whatever they could at the guy when he was in the outfield. Tough crowd!

I never personally got caught up in all the Wermacht invincibility stuff. I really think speed and coordination was their ace, and when the allies figured out how to deal with this, they really had the puzzle half solved. I do think the sirens on the stuka's were sheer sadism from above. I'd put that right up there with the KV's.

Regards,

Montenegro

[Mark_BookGuy]

Yup, Big Dave was on the %^#E^* 1979 Pirates. He had a great .526 slugging percentage. I saw him when he played for Milwaukee. Still an imposing figure circa 1990.

Too bad he never drove a T-34. But he did warm up with a sledge hammer, I guess that's close enough.

Arnold Schwartznegger has a private M-48 (he drove one in the Austrian army).

[Montenegro]

Originally posted by Mark_BookGuy
Yup, Big Dave was on the %^#E^* 1979 Pirates. He had a great .526 slugging percentage. I saw him when he played for Milwaukee. Still an imposing figure circa 1990.

Too bad he never drove a T-34. But he did warm up with a sledge hammer, I guess that's close enough.

Arnold Schwartznegger has a private M-48 (he drove one in the Austrian army).

I'll never forget in that All Star game when he made a throw from the warning track/cusp of the wall to home plate with NO bounce and got the guy out. Of course, I forget which year. Too many dates in this here life.

[Preuss]

Actually, I've started to use my Allies a lot. In one game, Pasubio division has experience of 92. And...there's all of those 13/40 and 13/42 tanks you're spending big bucks on (9!? according to the manual) I surely wouldn't saddle the Germans with them.
I've even started bring the Rumanians and Hungarians into regular German corps as a 4th division. It enables me to lengthen the line and gives them some experience so they turn into valuable fighters...well...hopefully. I haven't gotten into warm 42' in any of my games yet, so we'll see.

[Mark_BookGuy]

Originally posted by Montenegro


I'll never forget in that All Star game when he made a throw from the warning track/cusp of the wall to home plate with NO bounce and got the guy out. Of course, I forget which year. Too many dates in this here life.

That was Dave? I'm pretty sure it was 1979 and I remember that throw! Awesome. The other baseball moments I'll never forget is Pete Rose smashing into the catcher (the guy from Kansas City) in the all-star game; being there to see Nolan Ryan toss his 300th win (I still have my scorecard and special souvenir); and seeing a passed ball at a Brewers/Rangers game that scored TWO runs. Damdest thing I've ever seen.

Oh, the connection to WIR..... um..... some relative of Dave's helped send Fords and Studebakers to the Russians which helped beat back the Hun. Sometime in the November 15, 1943 impulse I believe.

[Ranger-75]

If the Italian unit come back, they will likely come back in the Afrika or Italy HQ, and unlt before 1943, because after that Itals was no longer fighting.

The French under DeGaulle, fought very well indeed. Their 1940 failure was a many faceted failure which for the most part did not include the fighting spirit of the indivudual soldier.

[Muzrub]

Do you really want them back? They're just easy targets for Ivan. (If in doubt, pick on the German allies )

As with all the German Allies you have to blood them fast in the early stages- get them involved in the battles and never hold them back- once their experience grows you have some effective units for defense and at times in attack!