Stripping CVs of a/c while they go repairing.

[Hartmann]

I could not find anything in the manual about this (maybe it is still in there, but ...):

So, if I take the squadrons off the CVs before sending them home, does it take considerably longer for the CVs to get back to me?

I first avoided to deplete CVs like this because I thought of it as an exploit .... but recently I did for the first time and it now seems that Kaga will be gone much longer than other CVs with comparable damage. Is this observation correct? Or is it just a coincidence?

Indeed, I would *like* it being correct for I still feel not very comfortable of having all the squads while the CVs themselves are gone.

Hartmann

Edit: btw anybody knows how the AI handles this? Do they tend to keep the squads or do they send them home together with the damaged CVs?

[Hartmann]

No info/opinions on this issue? Anyone?

Is it maybe just the right thing to do to transfer the a/c before sending a CV for repairs?

How do you guys handle this?

Hartmann

[Sultanofsham]

Originally posted by Hartmann
No info/opinions on this issue? Anyone?

Is it maybe just the right thing to do to transfer the a/c before sending a CV for repairs?

How do you guys handle this?

Hartmann

I dont strip the carriers before sending them back. I might shuttle run aircraft to keep the carriers out of harms way but IMO theres no way the high command would alow a theater commander to keep a carriers aircraft unless it was the high commands idea in the first place.

[Rob Roberson]

...my carriers are so full of water there isnt a choice of whether or not to strip the planes off..they seek dry land somewhere. That being said I would have no qualms about keeping my air assets in combat with or without their parent carrier if I get the opportunity.

Rob

[Howard Mitchell]

Originally posted by Hartmann
So, if I take the squadrons off the CVs before sending them home, does it take considerably longer for the CVs to get back to me?

Indeed, I would *like* it being correct for I still feel not very comfortable of having all the squads while the CVs themselves are gone.

Hartmann

Historically, the IJN 'aviation support' staff were part of the carrier's crew, so squadrons tended to stay with the carrier. On some occasions though they did operate independently, such as for the I-Go (? doing this from memory) operation, but that was usually for major, well planned operations.

[Sonny]

Mine usually find their own dry land when the CV is pounded so it is not under my control. I don't send them back if they are fit to fly planes.

[The Gnome]

I strip them, and haven't noticed any difference in the time to return the carriers. Enterprise was returned to me fairly speedly but that is more of a casual obhservation.

I look at the stripped CAG as insuarance that the high command will give me my carrier back!

[IKerensky]

Err, quite same thing than Hartman. My Cv planes just quite never operate from CV. Land based airfield are so much more nice. But they dont withdraw with their carrier.

[thantis]

A good question for the group:

If the CV's aircraft aren't withdrawn with the carrier (seeking dry land because of battle damage, etc) - does the carrier return with new aircraft? Or does it show up with no aircraft and its up to me to return the old squadrons?

[Didz]

I don't know about the IJN but historically the 24 Wildcats from Saratoga were flown off and transferred to Henderson Field when the Saratogo torpedo's by a submarine in the naval battles around Guadacanal. They fought from that base for five weeks at the end of which time only 5 were still servicable.

Nice website on 'The Cactus Airforce' here.
http://www.ixpres.com/ag1caf/cactus/cactus.htm

[The Gnome]

If the CAG is stripped it is void of aircraft on its return.

[Hartmann]

Originally posted by The Gnome
If the CAG is stripped it is void of aircraft on its return.

That's good!

Now does anybody know what the AI does in the situation where it has to send a CV back for repairs? I guess I will make my own house rule according to the AI behaviour. If it does send the squads back with the CVs, so will I.

Hartmann

[sitkis]

Don't the air units assigned to carriers automatically get pulled when you send a carrier back to Tokyo/Pearl? I see this all the time.

I can't count the times where a carrier is damaged, it's planes fly to a base, it gets sent to Truk, it gets sent home, and the air units dissapear that same turn. Are other people having those planes stick around? Or am I just confused?

[Joel Billings]

A few things are going on here. First, keeping the air units while the carrier goes home does not add time to the carrier returning. The carrier will not come back with new air units. If you leave the air units on the carrier when it is sent home, all the aircraft are dumped into the replacement pool for use in the theater (the air unit and pilots stay with the carrier). When your carrier returns, it will need to draw planes from the replacement pool to fill out its air groups (no replacements available will lead to an empty carrier - this is more a problem for the Japanese as US replacement rates are usually sufficient to cover any needs).

You can keep air units in the theater, however, under some circumstances which I cannot explain the air units will automatically rejoin the carrier and return home with the carrier (planes being put in replacement pool). I think this happens when the air unit is in the same hex as the carriers, but I'm not sure about that. Also, be aware that carriers in a port with an airfiield can transfer the planes even when the flight deck is non-operational (they physically remove the planes from the ship and take them to the airfield).

Also, keep in mind that partial air units (1/, 2/, etc.) behave differently than the main groups, although I'm not sure I could say exactly how. The code in this area of the game got pretty whacky and hard to follow, with only Gary and/or Mike having any chance at deciphering exactly what is going on (yes, it often happens that Gary doesn't know what his own code is doing unless he spends a lot of time to figure it out again). I hope this information helps explain some things.

[Paul Vebber]

(yes, it often happens that Gary doesn't know what his own code is doing unless he spends a lot of time to figure it out again).

Something I think any programmer can identify with

[sitkis]

Hmm, I think I see what is going on. When a carrier is damaged I bet it always has at least one damaged plane on board. Even though the planes are probably fixed by the time the carrier gets to Truk, in preparation for the return to Japan, I never transfer these air units off to the Truk airfield. So when the partial air units on the carrier get sent back home with the ship the other partial air units at Shortland/Rabaul/Lugin get yanked too.

I bet if the carrier is totally empty of planes, including damaged ones, all the partial units will stay in theater. Have to test this when I get home.

[IKerensky]

Originally posted by Paul Vebber


Something I think any programmer can identify with

Yep I know very well the "**** what Did I intented to do with that sub-procedures ??? " syndroma too

And knowing a bit of Gary algo and equation I can really understand the pain going through it , but it will learn you a lot; it teach me the Square then divide by 100 trick wich is unvaluable.

[Hartmann]

Thanks, Joel.

Hmm, when I transferred the planes from the Kaga to Truk, Kaga was already at Truk. I then sent Kaga home, but the a/c stayed. So the "same hex" theory seems to be not it.

But sitkis may be very well right, I had repaired floating damage for Kaga for quite some time to avoid it being in Japan for too long. All this time the planes were still on bord the ship and probably they got all repaired. So chances are I pulled the *full* complement of planes out of the CV which could be the reason that they are still in theater now.

Fact is that I could have much more squads around if I had done this with other carriers, too. So this could maybe unbalance the game vs the AI if the AI does not know the trick. So (again): any info on what the AI does in this respect? Does it try to keep the planes, or does it send them back?

Sorry for asking the same question thrice, but I really need to know how I should set up my house rules.

Hartmann

[Didz]

Originally posted by Joel Billings
Also, keep in mind that partial air units (1/, 2/, etc.) behave differently than the main groups, although I'm not sure I could say exactly how. The code in this area of the game got pretty whacky and hard to follow, with only Gary and/or Mike having any chance at deciphering exactly what is going on (yes, it often happens that Gary doesn't know what his own code is doing unless he spends a lot of time to figure it out again). I hope this information helps explain some things.

Joels point about partial air units is worth noting.

In my game when Enterprise and Hornet were damaged off Gilli Gilli they instance their entire air compliment was re-routed to the nearby land base whilst the carriers withdrew to Townsville for repair.

However, there were still partial elements of each squadron on the carriers. Those planes that had been damaged by AA during the attack on the BB's and those fighters that were hit during the subsequent air battle with zero's from Rabaul plus the spare pilots.

So soon after the CV entered Townville Harbour I discovered that the partial squadrons at Gilli Gilli disappeared and had been transferred back to the carriers.

In order to get them to stay on New Guinea whilst their carriers were repaired I had to order their transfer back Gilli Gilli by hand. After that they stayed where they were told to go.

I suspect the same is true in the case of withdrawal to Pearl.

[Joel Billings]

As far as I know the AI leaves the air groups wherever they are. If they are on the carriers the planes get dumped in the replacement pool. Not sure if it tries to reunite sub-units that have been forced to land on airfields with the carrier (or if the computer does this automatically for all players as suggested above).