GPW v5 Operation Zebra game starting

[wmcalpine]

Soviet turn 20 completed and sent to Lars.

AGS is on the move and threatening a major breach in two river lines. Soviets struggle to respond...

[lomyrin]

AGN turn 21 sent to AGC.
 
The German postions in the north have gone from good to bad to serious to horrible.
 
The remnants of the German forces are greatly outnumbered and retreating.
 
Lars

[SSFSX17]

From the sound of things, it seems like the line may not even reach Stalingrad - and if it does, it will be far too late.

[GrumpyMel]

AGS Turn 21 done and sent to Soviet NW.

Russia continues to be a bloodbath for both sides. At least in the South, we are still making some progress against the reds.

Disturbing rumors continue to spread from Berlin. It is said that the little paper-hanger sits in a room all day, moving pieces around a map and ordering offensives from divisions that no longer exist.

We can only hope that our brothers in the North and Center can contain thier situations or soon we too may begin recieving such orders. But for now AGS fights! Snow or no snow, we will continue to advance.

[JAMiAM]

NW Fronts turn 21 to Western Fronts.

Factory workers in Riga, emboldened by the success of the Red Army at the front, have risen up and retaken the city. Near Demyansk, Busch's HQ is in danger of being cut off with what little remains of his army. Hoepner is retreating from Staraya Russia through the swamps, hoping to make it past Dno before being cut off by the 2nd Shock Army which has struck a mighty blow against Kuchler's forces as they flee from the impenetrable Luga Line.

I hereby nominate Lars as Gamer of the Year for continuing the fight with a stiff upper lip under hopeless conditions.

[Daniel_machinegun]

(north) Hoepner stalled?! on winter, I can understand that. But lost Finland!!?
(center) Eric Von Manshtein, our best Commandant! turned out to be a COWARD!
(south) and Paulus, my dear Paulus, you didn't reach Stalingrad.

you are useless!

Attack! Attack!! push forward! no retreat! no retreat!

ATTAAAAAAAACK

[jjdenver]

One thing that I've noticed in this scenario (which I love) is that in versions I've played the Germans seem to win easily - other than in this particular game. But more importantly since production is so low compared to forces on map once one side starts to roll (and in this particular game Soviets are rolling) the war seems to end pretty quickly. I find it hard to envision the war going beyond 41 in any balanced way due to low replacement rates.

I think that perhaps production might be correct for weekly turns (not sure how much research was put into this) but maybe the tempo of combat and combat losses are not balanced for weekly turns since most of one side or the other can be massively attrited over the course of a 4-6 turns.

I'm not exactly sure how to fix this and allow the war to stretch into 42/43/44 but perhaps going to bi-weekly turns would help keep larger armies on map?

[GrumpyMel]

Perhaps, a few events at certain times of the year adding fresh units to a sides stockpile. This could represent units being transfered in from other theatre's as the situation grows desperate.... I think this historicaly happaned at several points in the campaign.

The events could check to see who was holding certain key locations (or maybe even a force pool size comparison).... and the reinforcments could be held back if a side was doing too well.... or allowed through if it wasn't.

This would help prevent the steam-roller effect ... and also be somewhat realistic.... as there would be little call to transfer units from other theaters if a side had things well in hand.

Certainly some fresh troops could breath new life into the flagging German Army about now.

Not sure where things exactly went wrong in this game.... things have been going pretty much as expected for AGS.... but AGN and AGC sound like a mess... not sure what happaned here.

If left alone, I could probably continue to slowly hammer back the Soviet South....but I'm sure you (Soviet Center) won't allow me to do that unmolested


Mel (AGS)

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

One thing that I've noticed in this scenario (which I love) is that in versions I've played the Germans seem to win easily - other than in this particular game. But more importantly since production is so low compared to forces on map once one side starts to roll (and in this particular game Soviets are rolling) the war seems to end pretty quickly. I find it hard to envision the war going beyond 41 in any balanced way due to low replacement rates.

I think that perhaps production might be correct for weekly turns (not sure how much research was put into this) but maybe the tempo of combat and combat losses are not balanced for weekly turns since most of one side or the other can be massively attrited over the course of a 4-6 turns.

I'm not exactly sure how to fix this and allow the war to stretch into 42/43/44 but perhaps going to bi-weekly turns would help keep larger armies on map?

My suggestion for improvement would be to keep the same turn length, but to at least double the production capacity of both sides, and to change the research costs - dramatically. If production is doubled, then research should be quadrupled, so that it stays effectively at least twice as expensive as it is now. Also, more stratification is needed in the production (or supply) costs as the scenario suffers from the same basic flaws that any scenario that relies on the stock masterfile does - overly effective air/artillery strength.

[GrumpyMel]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM


My suggestion for improvement would be to keep the same turn length, but to at least double the production capacity of both sides, and to change the research costs - dramatically. If production is doubled, then research should be quadrupled, so that it stays effectively at least twice as expensive as it is now. Also, more stratification is needed in the production (or supply) costs as the scenario suffers from the same basic flaws that any scenario that relies on the stock masterfile does - overly effective air/artillery strength.

You are right, air is overlay dominant in this game. It could be at points, if the conditions were right for it, however that wasn't reliable. Part of the issue, I think is that there are no real weather effects for air. Especialy operating on this scale, there would be weeks when air was completely grounded....and others when it's ground strike capability was severely limited due to poor visibilty. Not sure how to model that.

[wmcalpine]

AGS still moving forward. Soviet SW commander is feeding troops into the meatgrinder with counterattacks. Some sucesses, but at terrible cost

[lomyrin]

AGN turn 22 done sent to AGC
 
The execution of the AGN turn is getting a lot easier now, there are not many units left to move....
 
Lars

[lomyrin]

AGN turn 23 done, sent to AGC.

The retreat continues....

Something messed up here seems I was able to play turn 23 but it has to be in error I think.

Lars

[JAMiAM]

Lars????

Did you get one of your several GPW games mixed up? I know that the game hasn't come around to me since you posted that turn 22 was done, so I can't see how you got turn 23 played...[&:]

[GrumpyMel]

AGS Turn 22 done and sent to Soviet NW.
 
A mixed week for AGS. Forces in the North had to abandon Kursk to superior numbers of Western Front troops. In the South progress is slow, however massive numbers of Soviet casualties continue to be inflicted. Most of the Soviet equipment we face now has barely had time for the paint to dry from the factory before it comes under our guns.
 
 

[JAMiAM]

Turn 22 to Western Fronts. Germans are in full retreat, with the Russians in pursuit. Busch is surrounded. Kuchler and Hoepner in imminent danger of being cut off. Riga bridgehead is expanding. Grim days for the Wehrmacht.

[GrumpyMel]

Hey guys, just curious where the turn is at now?
 
 
 
Mel (AGS)

[JAMiAM]

I think that the Zebra is fast becoming an endangered species...

[lomyrin]

AGN turn 23 sent to AGC
 
Full retreat with the remnants....
 
Lars

[Ccr]

turn to AGS

Supply situation restored at last!