AE Land and AI Issues [OUTDATED]

[Mike Solli]

What happens if you exceed your troop capacity in a base?

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Were loading routines reworked? I mean if I put AP and AK - will program load squads only in AP and equipment only in AK (so to avoid penalties)?

What about combat loading?

[Andy Mac]

A hefty increase in supply usage as supplies waste further - stick 50,000 men on an atoll and you will need a LOT of supplies to keep them fed 5,000 men will need about 20x the normal supply usage (its being stored in the sea !!!)
 
Also some fatigue and disruption penalties because they all need to remain standing 24/7

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

A hefty increase in supply usage as supplies waste further - stick 50,000 men on an atoll and you will need a LOT of supplies to keep them fed 5,000 men will need about 20x the normal supply usage (its being stored in the sea !!!)

Also some fatigue and disruption penalties because they all need to remain standing 24/7

I love it!

[Uamaga]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

A hefty increase in supply usage as supplies waste further - stick 50,000 men on an atoll and you will need a LOT of supplies to keep them fed 5,000 men will need about 20x the normal supply usage (its being stored in the sea !!!)

Also some fatigue and disruption penalties because they all need to remain standing 24/7

Sounds great (and funny [:D]).
However does it apply only to garrisons in bases (owning bases) or to invaders in same hex too?

BTW
Did you consider extending such overstacking penalty to land warfare in general? Maybe it would limit land deathstar tactic and also somewhat slow down land advances. If only equivalent of (lets say) 4 divisions could operate without penalties in Clear hexes, less at Jungle and Mountains (and maybe at coast limited hexes too?) it would maybe force players to maneuver more?

[Andy Mac]

It applies to both sides which will make atoll invasions interesting
 
Standard practice in stock is to bring along Av Regts and Base forces with the assault force and getting an AF operational on the day of capture - not going to happen now a smaller more AV heavy force is going to be needed and preparation levels are going to need to be 60+ I think and that will be marginal - atoll combat is going to be really brutal for both sides.
 
A defender against a determined attacker with air and sea superiority will struggle but the old bring along 3 Divs unload them in a turn to take a base tactic is going to be difficult
 
We considered hex staking but decided against it the extra granularity on the map and lack of permament hex control should fix that - certainly tests indicate it does.
 
 

[Uamaga]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
It applies to both sides which will make atoll invasions interesting

That is great. Thanks! [&o]

We considered hex staking but decided against it the extra granularity on the map and lack of permament hex control should fix that - certainly tests indicate it does.

Just looking forward to "test" it...

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Were loading routines reworked? I mean if I put AP and AK - will program load squads only in AP and equipment only in AK (so to avoid penalties)?

Completely reworked. Type of ship is much less meaningful for loading - it's type of capacity now. Penalties are not by type of ship, but by type of capacity. That is, there is a load penalty to put troops in cargo space, no penalty in troop space - no matter what kind of ship the troop space is in.

Both troop ships and AKs could have a mixture of troop and cargo capacity. I know one of the US Tank Battalions in the Philippines at the start of the war went out in one of the President Liners, troops in bunks and tanks/other vehicles in cargo holds. In AE that xAP (civilian passenger ship) would have 5000+ thousand troop capacity points and also a couple thousand cargo points.

One must pick ships wisely. Capacity type (troop/cargo) for loading, ship type (xAP, AP, APA, etc) for unloading. That is, an attack transport is very good for landing troops over the beach. An unconverted passenger ship is not. A militarized AP is somewhere in between. Save your APAs (and AKAs and LSDs and LSVs for amphib operations. Use your big, fast passenger liners for pier to pier transport away from the combat zone.

[bradfordkay]

"One must pick ships wisely. Capacity type (troop/cargo) for loading, ship type (xAP, AP, APA, etc) for unloading. That is, an attack transport is very good for landing troops over the beach. An unconverted passenger ship is not. A militarized AP is somewhere in between. Save your APAs (and AKAs and LSDs and LSVs for amphib operations. Use your big, fast passenger liners for pier to pier transport away from the combat zone."


Wunderbar!! [&o]

[ny59giants]

Good! [&o]
I tend to save my Allied Oceanic AP's (large endurance and large capacity) from the SRA and sacrifice the smaller coastal AK's (low endurance and low capacity). Glad to know I will not have to change that miind set much. [:D] 

[Andy Mac]

Transport capacity is going to be a real constraint for both sides now not just getting the troops there but keeping them supplied - AE is going to be a real logistical challenge.
 
Assault transports are going to be a MUST HAVE for attacking defended atolls. Atolls may not have much in the way of garrisons because of stacking levels but getting forces ashore intact quickly will mean you must have assault transport so be VERY carefull with assault transports

[John Lansford]

I would think ships such as LST's and LSD's would be useful in assaulting an atoll as well, since they unload completely in one turn.

[Knavey]

Placekeeper post!
 
Holy cow you guys have been busy.  Looking forward to playing AE!

[Andy Mac]

They are all assault type transports are usefull but atolls will be tricky for both sides getting the mix between service anbd combat will be important for the defender and working out how much to overstack to enable you to take the place quickly but not cripple yourself is going to be a hard place to be for the attacker.
 
Air and Sea superiority are going to be VERY important and more troops are not neccessarily going to help.
 
5,000 Marines 100% prepped against a 5,000 man SNLF garrison behind lvl 6 forts = a hard fight even with 100% air and naval superiority
 
Bring in 7 - 8,000 marines and thats probably livable with if you have air and sea superiority - bring in 30,000 marines and the marines will be in trouble requiring in total 600% combat supply so say 2 Marine Divs each one has a combat supply requirement of 3,000 tones per month so a normal force needs 6,000 tonnes per month or 200 tonnes per day
 
Overstscking means that goes up by 6x in this example so to remain combat effective the attackers need to unload 1,200 tonnes of supply over a beach per day...unloading limitations will make this very difficult and even if it was possible the attacker is taking extra fatigue and disruption caused by overstacking.
 
If they fail to achieve 1,200 per day then they are out of supply so that 30,000 man force is attackign as though it is 7,500 men.
 
 
 
 

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Uamaga

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

A hefty increase in supply usage as supplies waste further - stick 50,000 men on an atoll and you will need a LOT of supplies to keep them fed 5,000 men will need about 20x the normal supply usage (its being stored in the sea !!!)

Also some fatigue and disruption penalties because they all need to remain standing 24/7

Sounds great (and funny [:D]).
However does it apply only to garrisons in bases (owning bases) or to invaders in same hex too?

BTW
Did you consider extending such overstacking penalty to land warfare in general? Maybe it would limit land deathstar tactic and also somewhat slow down land advances. If only equivalent of (lets say) 4 divisions could operate without penalties in Clear hexes, less at Jungle and Mountains (and maybe at coast limited hexes too?) it would maybe force players to maneuver more?

In WWII, a Western corps or Japanese army attacked on a 10-km (6-mile) front, defended 20-30 km (12-20 miles), and screened perhaps 60 km (40 miles). Russian shock armies went in on a 10-12 km front. Western armies and Japanese area armies attacked on a 20-30 km front and defended 60-90 km. So more than a Western army defending a hex should be overkill; likewise more than a Western army group attacking a hex violates economy of force.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

They are all assault type transports are usefull but atolls will be tricky for both sides getting the mix between service anbd combat will be important for the defender and working out how much to overstack to enable you to take the place quickly but not cripple yourself is going to be a hard place to be for the attacker.

Air and Sea superiority are going to be VERY important and more troops are not neccessarily going to help.

5,000 Marines 100% prepped against a 5,000 man SNLF garrison behind lvl 6 forts = a hard fight even with 100% air and naval superiority

Bring in 7 - 8,000 marines and thats probably livable with if you have air and sea superiority - bring in 30,000 marines and the marines will be in trouble requiring in total 600% combat supply so say 2 Marine Divs each one has a combat supply requirement of 3,000 tones per month so a normal force needs 6,000 tonnes per month or 200 tonnes per day

Overstscking means that goes up by 6x in this example so to remain combat effective the attackers need to unload 1,200 tonnes of supply over a beach per day...unloading limitations will make this very difficult and even if it was possible the attacker is taking extra fatigue and disruption caused by overstacking.

If they fail to achieve 1,200 per day then they are out of supply so that 30,000 man force is attackign as though it is 7,500 men.

Andy, when you give these figures are you counting all the Marines in the example or just the combat troops with the support troops being extra?

[Andy Mac]

Support and combat count man for man I assume if a Marine Div has a support unit that unit is a Marine - I could be wrong
 
Every man counts basically

[Dutch_slith]

Some infos for Kereguelen....

Dutch LCUs in the Pacific from 1945 onwards:

T-brigade formed at Port Dickson/Malaya on 460115
Leader: COL S. de Waal (in 1941/42 Commander Troepencommando Tarakan)
COL D.R.A. van Langen (460216)

U-brigade formed at Soengei Patani(Sungai Petani)/Malaya on 460122
Leader: COL J.W. Sluyter

V-brigade formed at Ipoh/Malaya on 460125
Leader: COL J.K. Meyer

W-brigade formed at Chaah (Shah Alam?)/Malaya on 460215
Leader: COL H.A. Reemer
COL B.A. van Gulik (460615)

X-brigade formed at Chaah (Shah Alam?)/Malaya on 460223
Leader: COL G.J. Vermeulen

X-brigade and Mariniersbrigade formed the A-divisie (Soerabaja)
Leader A-divisie: COL C. Giebel (KNIL)

U-, V- and W-brigade formed B-divisie (Batavia). 8/9 april V-brigade moved to Bandoeng. At the end of 1946 the U-brigade left the division and moved to Padang. In July 1947 the T-brigade (Semarang) was added to the B-divisie.
Leader B-divisie: COL S. de Waal

Y-brigade formed at Bali on 460720. On 461025 Y-brigade moved to Palembang.
Leader: LTC F. Mollinger

Z-brigade formed at Medan on 461121.
Leader: MGEN P. Scholten

In October 1946 the 1e divisie '7 December' moved to Java. Upon arrival the division was renamed C-divisie '7 December'. With C-divisie also arrived 6 bewakingsbataljons (second-line units).

Later on there was a 2e divisie (renamed D-divisie, disbanded on arrival, units from this divison were added to the existing formations) and the 41, 42 and 43 ZIB (zelfstandige infanterie brigade = indep. infantry brigade). These brigades were known as F-, G- and H-brigade (and E-divisie).

TO&E brigade:
3 or 4 infantry battalions
1 or 2 field artillery battalions
1 Squadron of Light Tanks (Stuarts) and/or 1 Squadron pantserwagens (armored cars)
1 field company of engineers

TO&E C-divisie '7 December':
3 infantry bigades + Tanks, Artillery and Engineers

TO&E bewakingsbataljon
only infantry weapons, nothing larger than 2in Mortar.

[Dutch_slith]

Hi,

I've found this article on South African Reconnaissance Cars.

http://www.warwheels.net/images/WFVSouthAfricaHAUGH.pdf

The KNIL purchased 49 Mk III MFF's and named them Zuidafrikaanse Pantserauto. They were armed with two Vickers machine guns.

Mobiele Eenheid operated 3 of them. Detachement Tjepoe 9, Detachement van Altena 5 (Punter), Afdeling van Dongen 10, Afdeling Ritman 17 and 3 were at Tjaroeban. The dislocation of the remaining two is unknown, probably Bandoeng.

[Andy Mac]

Thanks I will try to adjust for release but may not get time (neck deep in AI at moment so Land TOE changes are on hold)
 
At present there are two Dutch Armoured Units
 
1st and 2nd Mobiele Eenheid Bn each one has 10 x RR/Vickers A/C's basically rifle calibre AFV's these cover all the old types floating about (TOE has 20)
 
They also have 4 out of 7 Marmon Harrington A/C's which are slightly better that the RR/Vickers cars
 
The last Sqn is an improvised Sqn of 10 MG armed trucks (no armour) if the allies choose they can divert Vickers Tankettes from Indian stocks to replace them and if these units survive eventually Valentines III's  (although that further weakens India Command where Vickers Tankettes are pretty much the top tank........)
 
Tanks are really in short supply for India so its not advised but choices do exist