Food situation Germany

[HannoMeier]

Dear all,

I just started a new 1914 Campaign in 1.23b.

I reached the first Strategic Phase and wondered that with the required 2 Transports in the Baltic, I got 3 raw materials from trade but 0 Food. This means, I am short 3 Food for Germany each strategic turn. Is this the intended situation, or should there be some food available from trade (I think the Entente (England, France) gets food from trade).?

So what is your experience? Is this a bug or a feature?

Cheers Hanno

[dpstafford]

I guess the question was, is the no food for Baltic trade something new, or has it always been that way?

[boogada]

IIRC - Germany does not get food from Baltic trade. Only if you manage to trade over the Atlantic. (Very unlikely due to the presence of the British fleet)
So you have to conquer some food hexes. Belgium has one, Holland has one, France has some, Russia has a lot etc...

[SMK-at-work]

And when you do conquer them there's a 20% (IIRC) chance that your vicious looting and exploitation of hte conquered populace results in each one disappearing in any given turn!!

So Germany almost always runs out of food

[wargamer123]

SMK, Germany's food situation is definitely hard pressed. I usually note though that she can sacrifice her other Allies success by stealing all for herself. Something that historically would not have been possible. That and being a lot more aggressive... Usually my Germany will not hurt from Food Stores 1st... Rather from casualties trying to gain the food... Ultimately Germany has some endurance vs War Weariness but throw starvation in too and she has a limited timeframe to win the war
 
I would defend my food as Germany beyond all other objectives, though this could make a lonnnnnngg war and cost you the same anyway. As taking Vital Capitols, Minors and Majors may tilt the scales long before you starve to death. Oddly, people don't mind starving so long as they're winning, for a short time at least

[Lascar]

In a couple of recent games using the latest 1.23 update we have encountered an unprecedented situation regarding German food supplies. In all previous games Germany has always suffered a food deficit after the first few turns. Now, after Russia surrenders, the Germans are accumulating food surpluses of up to 70 food points. It is true that Frank has extended the area of German control much further east into the Ukraine to replicate the treaty of Brest-Litovsk but even with those additional food hexes it seems that something is amiss with such large accumulations of food points.
Germany now has the potential of growing food surpluses that surpass Britain and France combined after they defeat Russia.

[wargamer123]

Lascar, had it happened early enough, it is possible.. As Germany most assuredly given time would've raped the Russians, but perhaps food increments and timeframe...

For instance 1915 Conquest of Russia yields more wheat, but in increments of say 5 per turn. 1916 3, 1917 1...and exponentially more dreadful

I think Germany could've gained more if she had the time, 70 seems a bit steep, maybe more like 20-25? or even 15-20

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: wargamer123

Lascar, had it happened early enough, it is possible.. As Germany most assuredly given time would've raped the Russians, but perhaps food increments and timeframe...

For instance 1915 Conquest of Russia yields more wheat, but in increments of say 5 per turn. 1916 3, 1917 1...and exponentially more dreadful

I think Germany could've gained more if she had the time, 70 seems a bit steep, maybe more like 20-25? or even 15-20

The Russian surrenders occurred in 1917 in these cases. I have never seen or can imagine a scenario where Russia surrenders in 1915.

[wargamer123]

I have made the entire ET surrender by 1915 on 3 instances out of about 20 Multiplayer games. Not AI, human...

So not only is it possible it's proven, and Russia definitely would've been 2 cases out of the 3... Nothing stood in my way between Petrograd in 1 case because I vaporized the Russian Army, the second case German units entered Petrograd within a few game turns and the opponent knew it was the end. Would the Game Engine allowed for a Surrender, didn't need to... Usually if you let things go a decent MP player will last till 1916 at worst, but it can happen sooner and Historically had the Germans pitted everything East First, why not a collapse a year earlier? Not all humans opponents are as equal to the Tsar either

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: wargamer123

I have made the entire ET surrender by 1915 on 3 instances out of about 20 Multiplayer games. Not AI, human...

So not only is it possible it's proven, and Russia definitely would've been 2 cases out of the 3... Nothing stood in my way between Petrograd in 1 case because I vaporized the Russian Army, the second case German units entered Petrograd within a few game turns and the opponent knew it was the end. Would the Game Engine allowed for a Surrender, didn't need to... Usually if you let things go a decent MP player will last till 1916 at worst, but it can happen sooner and Historically had the Germans pitted everything East First, why not a collapse a year earlier? Not all humans opponents are as equal to the Tsar either

Amazing, with all the large Russian reserves arriving in Nov. 1914 and into 1915 it boggles the mind how they could all just be vaporized while the French and British just sit back and watch it happening without taking pressure of the Russians. Even if you forced Russia to surrender in 1915 why would the TE surrender that early in the war?
I doubt that historically the Germans could have knocked out Russia in 1915 with a Russia first strategy. The French and British would have not been so passive as not to make that impossible for the Germans to pull off.

[Sewerlobster]

ORIGINAL: Lascar
In a couple of recent games using the latest 1.23 update we have encountered an unprecedented situation regarding German food supplies. In all previous games Germany has always suffered a food deficit after the first few turns. Now, after Russia surrenders, the Germans are accumulating food surpluses of up to 70 food points. It is true that Frank has extended the area of German control much further east into the Ukraine to replicate the treaty of Brest-Litovsk but even with those additional food hexes it seems that something is amiss with such large accumulations of food points.
Germany now has the potential of growing food surpluses that surpass Britain and France combined after they defeat Russia.

As Lascar's opponent, I wish I wasn't such a novice at this game. I simply was not paying attention to the food surplus until late in the game. I pursued a Russia 1st strategy and did NOT invade Belgium. Russia only fell on the historical date. I wonder if my military ineptness led to the surplus. Without the Belgian factory, or the French resources but both the food near Warsaw early perhaps I had more extra food. Germany only had one transport in the Atlantic for one turn and there was only one German export of 2 food to Austria. It seemed unachieveable and resulted in a TE advance deep into Germany before surrender.

Lascar's armies dined on many fine German summer sausages.

[wargamer123]

I have lost very few ET games, usually unseasoned ET player's lose quickly due to lack of experience. Lack of covering the basics, ET probably has a greater advantage overall to win GOA. Although there is a few ways to invite disaster in Poland in that small Sailant or entering into a bad Offensive strategy. A seasoned veteran will not easily lose Russia, and I do not think I'd pursue East First again. So I do feel the payday for Russia should be big. 70 Food won't help Germany if you starved her since weariness already did the damage the West needs to win, and there are ways to push her to the very edge before Russia. It does require a lot of Hurt on Russia to put her out...that or great tactics! France and UK are more than able to win the war with Italy, they have a very large front

Lascar is right, but for inexperienced players, a few clever flanking manuevers, and game is over... Reserves come for both sides, enough to patch holes, but IMO... Russia cannot lose certain regions.. Usually it is HQ points that end the Eastern Campaign not Russian bodies

now a clever Russian will entrench over strongpoints, and push back CP where she is weak and crush her ultimately nearly every time IMO

The game still has a few strategies that are also exploits, so my wins may also be chalked up to that......or wreckless Russians...who were in history a bit wreckless losing large armies in a few offensives, crippling them

[ojnab_bob]

Where is this 20% chance listed in the manual? Is this new to 1.23? I have spent a few minutes cursing as hard-earned Russian food resources suddenly disappear from the scopes... the Germans will be going hungry every time now. Perhaps this does at least reflect the historical reality. More ersatz coffee, anyone?

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: ojnab_bob

Where is this 20% chance listed in the manual? Is this new to 1.23? I have spent a few minutes cursing as hard-earned Russian food resources suddenly disappear from the scopes... the Germans will be going hungry every time now. Perhaps this does at least reflect the historical reality. More ersatz coffee, anyone?

Version 1.23 has rectified this by extending the German occupied area of Russia, after Russia surrenders, as per the treaty of Brest-Litovsk. When Russia surrenders the Germans will have unrestricted access to the Russian food hexed east of the Dnepr in the Ukraine. This will dramatically improve the food situation for them. The key to preserving the hex areas captured before Russia surrenders is not to the occupy them with CP troops so that they will not be destroyed.

[hjaco]

Huh - thought the food depletion chance was hold up on enemy hex control and not presence of enemy units?

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

Huh - thought the food depletion chance was hold up on enemy hex control and not presence of enemy units?

This rule has been changed by Frank more than once I believe. But to be sure Frank needs to answer this. I haven't done a search in the forum to look for it or someone might need to email him about it. But my sense of this, based on the last several games I have played, is that if the food hex is not occupied by the enemy before the country in question surrenders the food hexes tend to remain. One case in particular that I recall was playing as the CP and invading Romania. As the CP I controlled but deliberately avoided occupying the Romanian food hexes. Romania never surrendered but all three food hexes remained and contributed to the CP food pool till the end.

[FrankHunter]

Now, after Russia surrenders, the Germans are accumulating food surpluses of up to 70 food points.

Sorry I'm just coming to this now. I will look into this asap.

[FrankHunter]

I guess the question was, is the no food for Baltic trade something new, or has it always been that way?

Its always been that way. In the game Germany has never received food from Sweden, just raw materials.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

I guess the question was, is the no food for Baltic trade something new, or has it always been that way?

Its always been that way. In the game Germany has never received food from Sweden, just raw materials.

That makes sense since Sweden could barely feed its own small population.

[FM WarB]

I'd like a definitive answer on capturing food hexes. The manual says one thing, players on this thread hint at another.