Gliders capacity

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Mon Sep 18, 2000 2:13 am

Just tried loading German FJ Airborne into DFS 230's when I reight click on the inf it says they have a carry cost of 10 or less, while the DFS 230 has a capacity of 108.

However, when I try and load a nine or 10 man unit into the glider it says unit too large and I loose men so the unit size becomes 8.

Also I am only able to load one unit into a glider even if it is only a 2 man ATR team. As soon as I try to load a second unit I get a message saying "DFS 230 is already loaded". Sorry, I can load multiple two man units I only receive the message if I load a 2+ man squad and then try to load another squad that would take the size above 8.

This means I would need to purchase approximately 20 gliders everytime I wanted to use a German Airborne Company, which would be VERY expensive and pointless.

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Mon Sep 18, 2000 3:33 am

Originally posted by Hunter:
Just tried loading German FJ Airborne into DFS 230's when I reight click on the inf it says they have a carry cost of 10 or less, while the DFS 230 has a capacity of 108.

'108' means 8 men and/or a light gun that must be towed.

But IIRC the capacity was '12 men', I'll look it up and see that this is corrected (if needed) in the upcoming OOB patch.

Arralen

kao16 · Post by **kao16** » Mon Sep 18, 2000 6:34 am

Haven't tried V4 yet but for 2.3, when loading more than one unit I found that I had to click on the unit to be loaded, then the target load carrier.

Clicking on the next unit to load and then the target vehicle should allow loading with multiple units (subject to the capacity limit). Always select the unit to be loaded , press L, then indicate the vehicle to be loaded into/onto, rather than the vehicle to be loaded in/on, press L, and the unit to be loaded.

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Mon Sep 18, 2000 7:04 am

Three-digit carrying capacities indicate the ability to carry heavy equipment (1xx is "standard" heavy equipment, 2xx is "big" heavy equipment). Single and double-digit carrying capacities indicate that only troops can be carried.

The DFS-230 glider had a carrying capacity of 8 troops.

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Mon Sep 18, 2000 1:48 pm

Okay I think I now understand how the carry capacity works, but this raises another question:

If the gliders can only carry 8 men then why do airborne troops have a starting strength of 10 as this results in an instant 20% casualty as soon as you load them into the gliders?

I would have thought that a glider should be capable of carrying about a platoon of men i.e. 4 squads or 40 men?

Voriax · Post by **Voriax** » Mon Sep 18, 2000 4:42 pm

Perhaps the carry capacity for the DFS-230 should be raised to 10...after all it's carry capacity was 1 or 2 pilots and 8 troops. I dunno if the pilots were members of the infantry squad or not.

For bigger glider Gotha 244 would do well, unfortunately oob file is full.

It had a capacity of 23 troops, including pilots.

Voriax

ps. Of course there existed the Me 231 glider with carry capacity of 21 Tons...

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Mon Sep 18, 2000 8:07 pm

Operational Wartime Gliders

USSR: Antonov AN-7 (light transport, capacity 9 troops, ~400 built, used mainly to support partisan operations)

USA: Waco CG-4A "Hadrian" (light transport, capacity 13 troops, ~14,000 built)
USA: Waco CG-13 (medium transport, capacity ~36 troops, ~140 built)
USA: Waco CG-15 (light transport, capacity 15 troops, ~430 built, redesigned CG-4A)

UK: Hamilcar (med/hvy transport, capacity ~9 tons, ~400 built)
UK: Horsa (medium transport, capacity 25 troops, ~3,800 built)

Germany: Me 321 (heavy transport, capacity ~22 tons, ~200 built [Me 323 had engines])
Germany: Go 242 (medium transport, capacity 23 troops, ~1,500 built [Go 244 had engines])
Germany: DFS 230 (light transport, capacity 8 troops, ~1,500 built)

As a purist, I'm unhappy with changing the DFS 230 capacity to 110 instead of 108. However, since the German OOB is full, then either something would have to cut to make room for the other German gliders or the DFS 230 has to be changed to allow a full FJ squad to be transported. I suppose this change can be justified by the realization that 8 combat-loaded airborne-assault troops was roughly equal to 10 standard-equipped troops. Also, since as many Go 242s were built as DFS 230s (even though the Go 242 wasn't operational until 1942), then the DFS 230 could be "polymorphed" into a "hybrid standard German" glider, which makes a capacity of 110 taste a little better.

So the bottom line is, alas, I think Paul is right by changing the DFS 230 to a capacity of 110. This is clearly a case of having to modify historical reality to fit the constraints of the game. Please don't misunderstand me. This is not a flame. It is simply an observation of how things have to be done sometimes. I just hope we don't have to do this kind of thing too many times.

Boydcom · Post by **Boydcom** » Tue Sep 19, 2000 12:44 am

How do you figure barge capacity?

Voriax · Post by **Voriax** » Tue Sep 19, 2000 12:55 am

Victor, do you happen to know what kind of pilots these gliders had? Did they just pick one or two troopers from a squad and give them enough training to keep the glider in tow and do a 'controlled crashlanding'

I haven't done any research about it but it'd feel funny to have two specialist pilots that would have very small combat use after landing...if the pilots joined the squad their plane was carrying then the capacity of 10 would be right for the DFS 230. After all it carried 2+8 persons, plus some extra cargo (272 kilos, says one book)

Voriax

Almogavar · Post by **Almogavar** » Tue Sep 19, 2000 2:03 am

The DFS 230, a fabric covered, tubular fuselage, carried a pilot, a co-pilot and eight jaeger. These sat straddling a wooden bench which ran down the centre of the machine. On touch-down the perspex cockpit cover was ejected allowing the pilot and co-pilot to join the the assault. The jaeger left the aircraft throught a pair of doors, one port and one starboard. The machine, with a total weight of one ton, could carry as an alternative to the jaeger one ton of supplies.
Hptmn. Walter Koch was less orthodox on 10 May 1940:

- `Granit´Group (Oblt. Witzig), strenght: 85 paratroopers distributed among 11 gliders.

- `Eisen´Group (lt. Sächter), strenght: 90 paratroopers distributed among 10 gliders (PLUS HALF A MG SQUAD).

- `Beton´Group (Oblt. Schacht), STRENGHT: 122!!! PARATROOPERS DISTRIBUTED AMONG 11!!! GLIDERS (INCLUDING HALF AN MG SQUAD AND THE GROUPS COMMAND UNIT).

- `Stahl´Group (Oblt. Altmann), STRENGHT: 92!!! PARATROOPERS DISTRIBUTED AMONG 10!!! GLIDERS.

The builder said one thing, but everybody nows that the comander always is in reason.

Most former Fallschirmjaeger to whom I have spoken or with whom I have corresponded have mentioned that in the majority of cases the airplanes was overloaded.

Almogavar

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Desperta ferro.

robot · Post by **robot** » Sat Sep 23, 2000 7:09 pm

Why dont youuse cargo planes for airborne. I can get on 8 cargo planes the following. 2platoons jaegers 9 atr plus one platoon of engineers also any extra mmg and 1morter. Besides they look better while parachuting out. Then use 4 gliders to bring in heavy equipment later after they are set up. Such as atg and inf guns. They are very good for pulling the ai from other sources. If you drop near back obj. the ai gets very aggitated. May give you time to get thru that very heavy mine field . I use them in all assaults and believe me they really help .

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Robots wear armor for skin.Grunts wear skin for armor.