Very OT : Euro 2008

[Historiker]

So why do you think, Podolski and Klose have moved to Germany when they were childs? Perhaps because they Silesians?
Very interesting how some of you react when a German wishes his relatives good luck. Would the reactions be the same when Syrians whish Jordanians good luck, or when the Scandinavians hurray each other?

Instead of being happy about a "Piefke" whishing his team luck, the Austrian's posts here are embittert and full of malice. But that seems to be something typical for our relationship. We whish them just the best and some years ago, they were even called "the better Germany", as Economy was stronger and the unemployement rate lower there - but all that comes in return is unfriendly...

As usual. In 1938, they hurrayed Hitler, they voted with a vast majority to be a part of Germany. The population gave the Wehrmacht soldiers flowers and hundreds of thousands came to see Hitler in Vienna and to greet him and show how enthusiastic they were about the Anschluß.
Later, the percentage of Austrians in the SS was significant higher than their percentage of the population. There were also much more austrian war criminals than one would expect according their small number.
Nevertheless, in 1945, they immediately called themselves the "first victim of hitler"...
It seems like everyone has his own way to work up his nations history...


Well, I guess the reaction of a Croat must be influenced by the enormous pride that their team managed to beat us, that every sportsmanship is forgotten. I think it wasn't just me who talked only good about your team...

[Zond]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

...

Well, I guess the reaction of a Croat must be influenced by the enormous pride that their team managed to beat us, that every sportsmanship is forgotten. I think it wasn't just me who talked only good about your team...

Cmon dude, relax, no need to drag politics into this. Let's keep this thread clean.

And don't try to sell me the crap about sportmanship, whole German public was more than cocky and arrogant before the match. [8|]

Since we aren't on Vulcan, emotions move in front of logic and rational (during the Euro) [;)]

Again no need for heated discussions, tournament moves on, there are new matches to enjoy!

Relax once again, have a Bier!

[TulliusDetritus]

Zond, but your argument is wrong, in my opinion. Podolski moved to Germany when he was 2 (I think). He is the product of German Football. Polish football has nothing to do here. Right, the talent has to be there (but no one borns saying "I want to have talent"; it's a lottery). And talent alone is NOT enough... They usually say "talent is the 20% and 80% is hard work". And "work" was done in Germany. Had he moved to Germany when he was let's say 17 or 18, we might say that "most part of the credit goes to Poland, because that's where the player was formed". But again, he is the product of German football.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Zond, but your argument is wrong, in my opinion. Podolski moved to Germany when he was 2 (I think). He is the product of German Football. Polish football has nothing to do here. Right, the talent has to be there (but no one borns saying "I want to have talent"; it's a lottery). And talent alone is NOT enough... They usually say "talent is the 20% and 80% is hard work". And "work" was done in Germany. Had he moved to Germany when he was let's say 17 or 18, we might say that "most part of the credit goes to Poland, because that's where the player was formed". But again, he is the product of German football.

It's not only that, he hasn't moved to Germany for no reason.
He and his family came to Germany as "Spätaussiedler", that means as repatriates of German origin. With the ius sanguinis in Germany, he IS German and always was! That doesn't mean he can't be and feel Polish as well. Of course, this is his choice (and the question of laws, community, etc...) - but by both logic and law isn't he one of this usual "bought internationals".
The same for nearly all of the German players, all of them have at least on German parent. The only one who isn't a German after the old ius sanguinis is Gerald Asamoah. His parents are both Ghanans and he was born in Mampong in Ghana. He didn't come to Germany before he was 12 which started a huge discussion in Germany about him, when he was nomineed first for the national team.
IMO, as long as he feels German, identifies himself with my motherland and wants to be a part of it and just the best for it - why not?

[Zond]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Zond, but your argument is wrong, in my opinion. Podolski moved to Germany when he was 2 (I think). He is the product of German Football. Polish football has nothing to do here. Right, the talent has to be there (but no one borns saying "I want to have talent"; it's a lottery). And talent alone is NOT enough... They usually say "talent is the 20% and 80% is hard work". And "work" was done in Germany. Had he moved to germany when he was let's say 17 or 18, we might say that "most part of the credit goes to Poland, because that's were the player was formed". But again, he is the product of German football.

As i stated on the end of my post (Disclaimer - joke) i was joking [;)].

Regarding Podolski, Klose and others - i don't have anything with that . I'm not from Poland, doesn't affect me ,they made their choices, life goes on. No need to cry over spilled milk. [:)]

As you said, Germany provided Podolski everything (social welfare, health insurance, education) and logically he made reasonable choice - to play for Germany. No argument on that.

We have something similair in Croatia. For instance, Australian born Croats Josip Skoko, Zeljko Kalac and Mark Viduka decided to play for Australia. Anthony Seric and Josip Simunic decided opposite and they choose Croatia as their national team. Ivica Vastic, Croat, decided to play for Austria, since he become a football name in Austria. Josip Webber and Branko Strupar, Croats also, decided to play for Belgium (Webber on WC 1994) since they were also the best players of Belgium.

And also we have cases of Niko and Robert Kovac (born in Germany - they choosed Croatia), Mladen Petric (similair situation as Podolski - he moved to Switzerland as a small kid but also decided to play for Croatia) or Ivan Rakitic (born in Switzerland, played for U-21 Switzerland national team and then decided to play for Croatian national team.

[Zond]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

IMO, as long as he feels German, identifies himself with my motherland and wants to be a part of it and just the best for it - why not?

And that's the whole point! Applicable to every other nation/situation.

[Nixuebrig]

ORIGINAL: Zond
When looking through statistics you can see names like Yakin, polish bloke called Podolski and a certain Ivica Vastic? [:'(]

Jep, all complicated names compared to the typical croatian name Eduardo [:D]

Disclaimer: Just kidding And getting angry remembering that brutal foul which stole him this tournament

[Zond]

ORIGINAL: Prince

Jep, all complicated names compared to the typical croatian name Eduardo [:D]

Disclaimer: Just kidding And getting angry remembering that brutal foul which stole him this tournament

[:D]

Yep, pitty bout' the foul, we would be at least 20% more deadlier with him in starting 11.

But good news, his recovery goes smooth and soon he will join Arsenal for preseason training.

And also a said news from Austria, 20 yrs old croatian supporter died before the Croatia - Germany match of a heart attack. Apparently, the fever pitch was just too strong for him. RIP [:(]

[TulliusDetritus]

And I am going to miss the Italy vs Romania too: at work and on CABLE TV. Otherwise I could watch it the same

But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie

[Zond]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

And I am going to miss the Italy vs Romania too: at work and on CABLE TV. Otherwise I could watch it the same

But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie

Well if you have reasonable Internet connection at work you can watch the game via http://jlc-software.com/?page=internet_tv.html

Really neat piece of software.

Just choose country & channel and you're ready to go!

[TulliusDetritus]

[&o][&o][&o] You're the man, Zond. Many thanks [&o][&o][&o]

[Historiker]

And the Spaghettis start to show that one mustn't forget them, yet!

[TulliusDetritus]

Yes, Historiker, excellent first half. Italians clearly want to win this match. Well it's yes or yes anyway. And the referee's assistant is from now on Persona Non Grata in Italy. Tony's goal was legal (the 2 central defenders were between him and the GK). Ah, the mythical referee's "decisions". Who does not hate the "man in black"?

P.S.: I managed to see the match. An internet Chinese channel (CCTV-5) did that for me. I don't know what the commentators are talking about but who cares [8D]

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
I don't know what the commentators are talking about but who cares [8D]

[:D][:D][:D]
Search for radio broadcasts in your language. We have i.e. B5 aktuell, a Radio station that is live on every game germany does. You then might watch the chinese while you liste to an internet radio...


[X(] Romania scores [:D]

[TulliusDetritus]

Excellent, excellent, excellent Romania. In one of my posts I have said that [from what I read] they could be the underdogs of this Euro Cup... and... this could be true [8D] But many things can happen in this group...

EDITED: Historiker, the problem is the lack of synchronization between audio and video i.e. a team is attacking [video] and the radio speaker [audio] shouts (2 seconds before they score) GOOAAAAAL! [:(] Been there, done that [8D]

[Dixie]

Good times for the Orange Machine [:D]  I told you they would beat France [;)]  Shame I was wrong about Italy [8|]  Oh well, the game between France & Italy should be a cracker [8D]

[TulliusDetritus]

"But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie" -- Tullius Detritus a.k.a. Myself [8D]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Amazing stuff. AMAZING! No one can stop these guys! No one. Or who do you think can do that? Germany? Portugal? The poor things [:)]

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

"But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie" -- Tullius Detritus a.k.a. Myself [8D]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Amazing stuff. AMAZING! No one can stop these guys! No one. Or who do you think can do that? Germany? Portugal? The poor things [:)]

Holland will probably, as usual, implode in the quarter/semi-final [:D] They won't get past Spain IMO...although I hope I'm wrong. Their attacking football is good to watch, Robben's goal was good from such a tight angle, but their defence wasn't really tested much....

I feel that Italy will win against France, for my money France look as though they will struggle [:(] Aside from occasional brief flourishes they looked short on ideas in attack.

The next arguement among the experts will be, were Holland particularly brilliant tonight, or were France below the standards we have come to expect...

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
Dixie, I suspect the French are going to massacre Holland. Don't tell anyone [8D]

[:D][:D][:D][;)][:'(][:'(] I could say something, but I think an army of smileys says it all [:D] I realise I am leaving myself open for a counter attack should Italy bugger it up though...[:D]

[thegreatwent]

This is a great year for surprises, specially those guys in orange[:D]

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

"But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie" -- Tullius Detritus a.k.a. Myself [8D]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Amazing stuff. AMAZING! No one can stop these guys! No one. Or who do you think can do that? Germany? Portugal? The poor things [:)]

Not a Germany as we've seen it yesterday. And I'm quite unsure who could stop them now, they are REALLY strong! Portugal may stop them, but in this case, we are thrown out - and so I'm against that option as well [;)]
So I hope for the all time classic finale: Germany vs. Holland

Holland will probably, as usual, implode in the quarter/semi-final They won't get past Spain IMO...although I hope I'm wrong. Their attacking football is good to watch, Robben's goal was good from such a tight angle, but their defence wasn't really tested much....

Quite possible - but it'll be very interesting!