Interested to know

[Mrtyphoon]

I know this is a bit unusuall but I would like to know if this game has some of the same qualities found in the V for Victory Civil war boardgame. From reading it looks like it does. Leaders seem of paramount importance and river combat seem to be covered adequately. I must admit that WAW was not a favorite of mine and I hardly played it but if this game can capture the personalities of the leaders involved then I would be willing to give it a try. Already got FOF and Ageods Civil wargame and both were worth every penny but not sure if I can justify another ACW title even if it is fathers day tomorrow.

[Bo Rearguard]

I are you speaking of Victory Games 1983 board game title The Civil War?

[Mrtyphoon]

That's the one a great game

[Bo Rearguard]

I working off old memories and I haven't got too far into this new one....but there is riverine combat in WBTS as there was in the VG Games title. No hexagons or strength points though. An average game unit except for militia is either gets damaged or destroyed. Game does seem to model the paramount importance of leadership well. Armies in WBTS are rather slow unwieldy animals as they were in The Civil War, but are the only efficient way to move large bodies of troops. One thing I do miss from the that old board game was the Texas/New Mexico expansion map. Not many games cover that. [8D]However this map does go all the way north to the Canadian border. Unusual in my experience of Civil War games. However, I must confess I own neither FoF or Ageod's game on this subject.

[Titanwarrior89]

I played alot of VG's The Civilwar.  This game does have some similarities in cps,depots and  initiative but it has monthly turns.  I am still learning this one myself, so I don't know how close these similarities run.  Also the strengths in WbtS is around 2ooo men.  While in The civilwar it was 5k if I remember correctly.[:)]

[Bo Rearguard]

Correct. Each SP in VG's The Civil War represented 5,000 men. I've managed to dredge up the old rule book. [:D]

The whole variable Command Points structure from that game does seem similar to WTBS's initiative based system. I still have some rulebook reading to do though.

[Titanwarrior89]

Spent many a hour playing The Civil War. The leader casualty "rolls" kept you on edge' when rolling for a 2 initiative leader.[X(] You sure didn't want to lose them.[:D]

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard

Correct. Each SP in VG's The Civil War represented 5,000 men. I've managed to dredge up the old rule book. [:D]

The whole variable Command Points structure from that game does seem similar to WTBS's initiative based system. I still have some rulebook reading to do though.

[Bo Rearguard]

Good memories huh? [:D] Yup....some of it's coming back to me. In VG's The Civil War you also used Command Points to bring certain units into play (like ironclads, raiders). In WBTS I think you are complete command of what does and doesn't get built production wise. The turns in The Civil War were mostly bi-monthy. In WTBS, mostly monthy. Both games compress the winter months to show less activity going on.

[Titanwarrior89]

Did you ever play TGamers- This Hallow Ground? Grand Tactical. I really liked the way they did the order system.

[Bo Rearguard]

Tragically, I remember seeing it on a game store shelf and thinking...."that looks good, but I'm spending waaayy to much much money on these games lately." By the time I returned it was out of stock and I never got the chance.

My other favorite CW board game was GDW's A House Divided. A simple game, but concise and well thought out.

[Titanwarrior89]

I think Multiman wargames took it over. TGamers sold out to them. GDW's A House Divided was a very good game. Yep those were the days. I recently sold my collection a few months ago. All gone![:(] They will be missed.[:)]

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard

Tragically, I remember seeing it on a game store shelf and thinking...."that looks good, but I'm spending waaayy to much much money on these games lately." By the time I returned it was out of stock and I never got the chance.

My other favorite CW board game was GDW's A House Divided. A simple game, but concise and well thought out.

[Mrtyphoon]

From reading the boards it seems that the game has got it right in regards to leaders. certainly Lincolns war to me as always been about getting the right guys to do the job required. I'm glad they included a random stat option but am a little worried that 48 turns maybe too short a time to find the right faces. Knowing that Grant is Grant right from the begining has always seemed a big advantage to the union for me. Just trying to figure how the random stats work exactly do they all add up the same for the two side when added tohgether and are just allocated to different personalities or do the stats go completely rendom so you have no idea if you have any good generals. P.S I know this is a bit off topic on my own thread but the leader thing for me is the biggest seller of this game and just trying to gather as much info about it as I can.

[Bo Rearguard]

Read this relevant snippet from the rules. Hopefully it's what you're looking for...

[Mrtyphoon]

Thanks for the info good stuff getting closer to buy time I think

[helm123456789]

This looks good and the only way to make it a little better would be if the ratings never became visible.  This way you would only be able to go off past performance for the leader.

[XLegion]

I thought Victory Games "Civil War" the best Strategic game ever designed on the war. And for years I have been hoping somebody would re-create that game for the computer. Well, Avalon Hill did back in the 1980s' but computers being what they were at the time were limited by the physical memory on the hard drives and the disks, which were 3.5" back then and could only handle about 1 Meg of memory.

That game was buggy as hell, but it was a faithful reproduction of the Victory Games product as well as the technology allowed.

Ok, now we jump to decades later. I have purchased every single one of the Grand Strategic American Civil War games except the AGEOD product which did not appeal to me at all. I did purchase "Forge of Freedom" but ultimately abandoned it because I really hated the area movement system. I found the whole game consisted of tons of "Chrome" but it was not a good game.

So it was with nervous anticipation that I purchased Gary Grigsby's "War Between the States". I have only owned it now for two days and am still tackling the complexity. But, I am glad to say that this one is a great simulation and I think it is going to be a great game.

It reminds me very much of "Civil War" from Victory Games although the mechanics of movement via the area grid is different than a standard hexagon grid of course.

Over all, leadership is going to be the key to this game as it was in the Victory games product.

This  is a very very good game and beats "Forge of Freedom" -" AGEOD's Product" and all other Civil War games for the computer that I have seen hands down.

[alaric318]

greetings, do not forget avalon hill (former), then, GMT games, "For The People", card system game about the civil war, Victory Games' Civil War is a great game, indeed, but card system add some flavour with events and some uncertainty that pleased me greatly, combat system is nearly aproach as Civil War, better leaders that use his abilities in combat get more chances of being wounded or killed, i think it is realistic, i have played all them... [:)]
each have his strengths and weakness, i prefer War Between The States more than Forge of Freedom or AGEOD's game, the political system is good, the federal/union player have some really hard choices about raising an army that can overhault the confederates, with the draft system, in example, the limited will to fight is featured very well in WBTS, i just love it, as you lose victory points, your militia cost more, limits that the south do not have, being more open to take casualties for prevail his cause, first is the draft system, you find yourself taking all available victory points to being able to make a draft recruitment that does not hurt on the long term your militia recruitment, after the draft system are "emancipation proclamation" event, choice for the federal/union player and colored troops recruitment, but all it cost political/victory points, overall, at least on my point of view, clear, clean and excellent overall game system.
 
there are one website that allows play from "for the people" and other games and there are one roughly new pbem game assist aplication available, have a module for VG Civil War, may you are interested, so here goes the links...
 
http://wargameroom.com/
 
http://www.zuntzu.com/index.htm
 
hope you enjoy the links and find them usefull, i will love if matrix games (specially, as they are developed The Game, "empires in arms") and i will love translated some columbia games, some GMT games, avalon hill, etc
 
with best regards,
 
murat30.
 
 

[helm123456789]

Would have to agree with XLegion about VG's The Civil War. I would love to see a exact port of this from the board to the PC with the computing power we have today.  Was never a fan of the card driven games as I feel it places too much emphasis and luck on the card when the roll of the dice is enough for me.
 
Have not yet purchased WBTS as I'm still lurking this forum to get a feeling about where the game stands.  FOF like COG is too much micro management for my taste and I don't like the fact the units earn special abilities (flankers) for tactical battles when this should be nothing but leader ability and use of terrain plus the units morale/experience. AGEOD's game has too much scripting of events for me and made me feel like I'm just replaying history instead of trying to rewrite it.

[PyleDriver]

Well Helm, first you need to put some pants on man...lol...You won't regret getting this game. Once you learn it, it's fast moving and the options are endless. The game is in the Unions court as to where and when things happen...I get boared easy, but I am still playing this 17 months later...

[8D]
Jon

[Mrtyphoon]

Took the plunge. Great job on the tutorials and manuals. Too often these parts get neglected but this looks like the learning experiance has been well thought out and well covered. Looking forward to mastering this one.