Which to buy - WBTS or FoF

[GShock]

Funny enough how us who got all 3 of them can only recommend....buying all 3 of them. I surely didn't expect everyone of us agree on the fact that all 3 are wonderful games...it came to me as a pleasant surprise. [:)]

[LarryP]

It IS very rare after being in these forums for a few years. [&:]

[XLegion]

Well, as I mentioned I purchased two of the titles and clearly would pick WBTS over FOF. I don't mind saying I hated the AACW product even though I didn't buy it. I DID buy the American Revolution title by them and figured much was the same. I hated the cartoonish graphics that made the thing look like stratego and the AI played like a fool. As I said that was the Revolution game, maybe by the time they did the Civil war one it was cleaned up but I don't think so.

I have many questions about WBTS, not because it isn't any good but mainly because I'm loving the thing and want to master it. It's a gem.

[madgamer2]

Well Xlegion I am most likely to be the ONLY onr who has all three games mand would only recommend 2 of them. Iplayed both AACW and FoF off and on but to me FoF is not a true Strategic level game. It is near impossible to have tactical and strategic level combat in the same game. What you end up with is a sort of grand operational level game. Now this is not a bad thing necessarily but for me it just did not work.
FoF was a nice "Game" but it just was not the ACW game to me. Ending up with 400K Yanks attacking 250K Rebs in Richmond at the end of the game just did not have a ACW feel for me.
To this I add a economic system which for my old brain was to cumbersome to be worthwhile, and a map that seemed to me to have way to few areas and a south AI that produced way to many soldiers made it a no go for me. If you are the type that like to spend many hours playing tactical battles it might be for you.
I have just this day installed the Gary Grigsby game and it looks to be about what I expect from him in terms of quality and design. AACW is a good game that does a good job of putting yopu into ther ACW period but does have a long learning curve and for me trouble handling the supply game. I am always running out of money or war supplies (SIGH) but will keep trying.
I have a firm belief that all who ask this type of "Which is Best" are really people like me who in the end buy them all because they enjoy the Civil War Period. Which one to buy first?.....I wouldn't touch that one for any amount of green stamps

Madgamer

[GShock]

Madgamer: in FoF settings are the key. Trust me, i've played with CSA and with the USA with historical settings, a normal difficulty but a different balance of forces and it is a very very challenging game where i'd dream those troop numbers. Play quick combat only, first sergeant level, advanced rules, unbalanced scenario and give Usa+1 power and CSA -1 power and you will never have 250k rebels in the whole map, much less in Richmond. You will literally PRAY Kentucky joins CSA...trust me.

Everyone needs at least 1 year of practice on the game to really play AACW as it should be played. I agree with you on the AI but i remind you that PBEM is the key of fun in *all* these games. AACW is much more complex than it seems and the deeper you go on the engines the harder it is for AI to really cope.

XLegion: BOA2 will be a masterpiece.

[XLegion]

Intriguing, but what is BOA2???

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: GShock
Madgamer: in FoF settings are the key. Trust me, i've played with CSA and with the USA with historical settings, a normal difficulty but a different balance of forces and it is a very very challenging game where i'd dream those troop numbers. Play quick combat only, first sergeant level, advanced rules, unbalanced scenario and give Usa+1 power and CSA -1 power and you will never have 250k rebels in the whole map, much less in Richmond. You will literally PRAY Kentucky joins CSA...trust me.

Agreed on that, sounds like you were playing the Standard Campaign in an older version. Try the settings above with the Historical Coming Fury scenario and the latest version and you'll find a different story.

Regards,

- Erik

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: LarryP

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

...
War Between the States
Forge of Freedom
AGEod's American Civil War
Take Command Second Manassas

That's some good stuff there!

Yep, got 2nd Manassas too and it's also a great game. [:)]

With the exception of WbtS, I have all of these games, but there are some issues: the trouble w/TC is that 2M will probably be the last installment in this series, so I will never get to play a good game as the Union. Quick Combat beats AGEOD's Battle Meter, but the FoF theater is almost barren, while the AACW screen is very detailed w/(too) many colored filters. However, I spend a lot of time trying to make Armies/Corps/Divisions that don't starve in the winter.

Give me a compelling reason(s) to scrap the above and get this game 'cause I just can't do them all anymore!

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
With the exception of WbtS, I have all of these games, but there are some issues: the trouble w/TC is that 2M will probably be the last installment in this series, so I will never get to play a good game as the Union. Quick Combat beats AGEOD's Battle Meter, but the FoF theater is almost barren, while the AACW screen is very detailed w/(too) many colored filters. However, I spend a lot of time trying to make Armies/Corps/Divisions that don't starve in the winter.

Give me a compelling reason(s) to scrap the above and get this game 'cause I just can't do them all anymore!

Well, it looks like you are a very picky gamer. I'm not going to suggest any game to you. I don't in any way mean this as rude or mean, I am picky too. Very picky, and I can relate to all of your complaints. However, they don't stop me from enjoying these games anyways. I don't know what to suggest at this point. [&:] [:)]

[mikeCK]

Gotta disagree about TC 2M. With the newest "Community Mod 3" You can play scenarios from Antietam and Chickamagua as well as the first Manassas. Not to mention Open play on these maps. There are about 100 different Orders of Battle and half as many maps out there. Currently, the modders are working on Fredericksburg maps and scenarios. By far, the best Tactical Wargame ever (with a very competent AI)

I will say that I never got into FoF and ever since I bought my new Rig, I cannot get AACW to load (even after many emails to AGEOD Support). I am VERY happy with GGWBtS. I love the concepts of initiative ...I can't belive that no body alse thought of this. Now I know what Lincoln felt like when McClellan was playing the part of the "Virgina Creeper"![:D]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
Give me a compelling reason(s) to scrap the above and get this game 'cause I just can't do them all anymore!

Well, in your case probably the best point to make is that WBTS requires less time and micromanagement to play than FOF or AACW (in my experience) but is equally rewarding.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: mikeCK

Gotta disagree about TC 2M. With the newest "Community Mod 3" You can play scenarios from Antietam and Chickamagua as well as the first Manassas. Not to mention Open play on these maps. There are about 100 different Orders of Battle and half as many maps out there. Currently, the modders are working on Fredericksburg maps and scenarios. By far, the best Tactical Wargame ever (with a very competent AI)

Is there a link for this on the old TC2M site?

ORIGINAL: mikeCK
I will say that I never got into FoF and ever since I bought my new Rig, I cannot get AACW to load (even after many emails to AGEOD Support ...

Digital download or disk?

[GShock]

I will say that I never got into FoF and ever since I bought my new Rig, I cannot get AACW to load (even after many emails to AGEOD Support). I am VERY happy with GGWBtS. I love the concepts of initiative ...I can't belive that no body alse thought of this. Now I know what Lincoln felt like when McClellan was playing the part of the "Virgina Creepe

Ehm, you should keep bugging the support and fix the problem bc AACW is worth playing "any given sunday". The concept of initiative is missing in FoF but FoF has other details such as the unit disposition/quality/weaponry and container leadership. AACW on the other hand has a different initiative system with the leader's skill giving activation. When inactive you can't attack and it's as frustrating as it is in WBTS. You can unstack troops and attack without commander...that's 35% penalty...or you can fight with Mc Clellan and also risk a stunning defeat. [:)]

[mikeCK]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: mikeCK

Gotta disagree about TC 2M. With the newest "Community Mod 3" You can play scenarios from Antietam and Chickamagua as well as the first Manassas. Not to mention Open play on these maps. There are about 100 different Orders of Battle and half as many maps out there. Currently, the modders are working on Fredericksburg maps and scenarios. By far, the best Tactical Wargame ever (with a very competent AI)

Is there a link for this on the old TC2M site?

ORIGINAL: mikeCK
I will say that I never got into FoF and ever since I bought my new Rig, I cannot get AACW to load (even after many emails to AGEOD Support ...

Digital download or disk?

Here is the link to the Mod: http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/warg ... d-pack-30/

GREAT MOD. You want "Community Mod 3" It has all the scenarious, maps and visual mods (smoke especially). No more using the Army of Virginia all the time. Now its Army of the Cumberland at chickamagua all the way!!

As for the second question. I tried both digital download and hard copy. I use windows XP and it will not complete loading. i have tried everything to the point that AGEOD simply stopped responding to my "that didnt work" emails. I am not the only one. They had people rooting around in various files manually entering security codes and such to get it to work. Its shame because I loved it.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: GShock
The concept of initiative is missing in FoF but FoF has other details such as the unit disposition/quality/weaponry and container leadership.

Actually, FOF does have initiative as a leader stat and it's checked whenever a unit commanded by that leader wants to move. Check fails, unit doesn't move. All leaders _could_ have initiative in FOF but you find out for sure when you execute the turn. The initiative system is fairly lenient though, so rarely (usually in poor weather/winter/tough terrain) will a unit actually not move.

Regards,

- Erik

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: mikeCK

... As for the second question. I tried both digital download and hard copy. I use windows XP and it will not complete loading. i have tried everything to the point that AGEOD simply stopped responding to my "that didnt work" emails. I am not the only one. They had people rooting around in various files manually entering security codes and such to get it to work. Its shame because I loved it.

Re hard copy: during AACW's installation, I had some problems w/the key code because I was using the keyboard's dash (-) in place of a hyphen, so I went into MS Word, Insert, Symbol, and I think I used the En Dash. Anyway, one of those special symbols worked, and that could be the issue w/your AACW code.

The best way to enter the CD key code is to write it to an MS Word doc, then copy and paste it into the download procedure when asked for.

[mikeCK]

Yeah, that not it. When I install the game, it never finishes. Then I have toimanually enter a notebook flle and change some things by entering the code. Then the game starts to load but the green bar stops about 25% of the way. I have been through about 5 emails with AGEOD including them sending me modified files to no avail.

[GShock]

You mean initiative with the movement arrows...but it is voided through rail move but yes, that is initiative...and FoF also has the container comparison that generates the chances of raid supplies, cav screen, surprise attack...and so on. [:)]

[decaro]

But AACW installed on your previous computer, which wasn't XP? And now it won't install via download or disk on XP?

[mikeCK]

Actually, my old computer was XP as well. I think there is soem kind of program running on my new computer that is meesing up teh game. I have tried turning off the anti-virus and such but no luck. In the end, it doesn't matter because I like this game better.