Urban row building WIP

[benpark]

I',m using Stridors "Bones, Groans and Psychic Moans Tutorial" for this building.

I'm putting this up so that my mistakes can be learned from, and caught by the "Think Tank" (pun intended). To proceed with making a few maps I would like to do, I need particular models, so I'm trying it out.

I made a very basic representation of a row building that you would see in most central European cities in the 1920-40's. I have absolutely no 3d modeling skills, so the learning curve is pretty steep for me, luckily Stridor writes great tutorials.

So, this is the basic building, with the infantry positions placed. This will be a 2 squad occupancy building for now. I haven't put a floor in the middle of the building-I noticed that a lot of other models in PzC don't have them (plus it's too advanced for me right now...).

As it stands, I need to be sure two things are happening-

1. My building is scaled correctly. I have been importing one of the game models (a single soldier) to eyeball it. It looks OK, but I can't be positive.

2. How to actually texture it.

More later.

[benpark]

I scrapped the first model, but now have a bit more progress. I think I have found that each area that needs a separate texture needs a separate model structure. I now need to decipher what I can do to make the door texture only show up on 2 sides (it's wrapped around the entire model as is, for a total of 4 doors).

[Biffa]

Quickest way~Just texture the two lower faces on the sides with the upstairs texture!
 
Longer way~Make a second texture for the sides.
 
....the choice is yours.

[benpark]

Just got it sorted. I'm going to add another floor as another model, since I believe 3 floors is the limit we have in the game. I did notice that my textures don't show when restarting MS3D, though they are still listed as being assigned.

3 Floor test:

[benpark]

The textures still need work, but it's coming along. I'm wondering how the textures will work in game, though. Will I need to have a folder with the assigned textures, along with the model? I will have several small .bmp's, but I see that the models in game use a single one.

[benpark]

Shot up version with pharmacy:

The texture stretching is still bothering me. Is there any way to get particular parts exactly where you want them?

[Biffa]

Send me the graphic files ben, it's looking good tho, shouldn't take much of a tweak.

[benpark]

Attached is a zip of the building face textures. I'm hoping to avoid the stretching that's happening, making the whole model seem "fuzzy". They are all the same dimension (roof and chimney are different dimensions).

Is there any method to get a blueprint from the model of where the textures would need to be for a single .bmp, though? This way is pretty hit or miss.

[benpark]

The MS3D model attached-

[Biffa]

Got them, I won't touch the model itself.

Fuzzy is just a quality issue, you can have it as sharp as a blade but if you're using a lot of the buildings then it can effect the performance of some people's machines. I'll go for 512x512, we can always make it smaller later.

[Biffa]

Found your fuzzy problem, you have a basic rectangle shape for the building so it is narrower than it is long but your texture has a 5 window width which has been applied to both sides, the narrow side should only have 3 windows.
 
I followed your building layout and atm have the same problem, thing is it can't be easily fixed because you have Corner Columns at the end of each window set (this stops us from simply cutting the exsisting texture width to fit), so you're going to need a seperate window/wall texture file for the sides. Which is a shame coz I was getting it out of one file.
 

 
 
Do you want the files back, are you happy to leave it or shall I carry on with it tomorrow?

[benpark]

Hey, that's nice! Thanks.

If you want to mess around with it in any way you like, have at it. The more versions, the better if we are going to have a workable city environ.

How in the devil did you get the entire texture onto one file? The only way I've seen a tutorial on is to assign textures individually to specific faces.

[benpark]

Take this new one, fer example...

Is it better to keep it as one model, or to split it into 3 parts to texture separately? I've been trying to get the hang of the texture mapper in Milkshape. I have to say that skinning models is the most unintuitive thing I've ever tried to do (sober). It baffles me that there isn't some kind of better system than this.

[Bil H]

BenPark, there is a better system.. you will need 3DSMAX to use it though  [;)]

[Stridor]

Ben,

Whilst max is better to be sure, it also costs c100 times as much so I would hope that it should be.

Once you get the hang of how to texture in MS it is not that hard. You don't need to use multiple texture files (you can do it all with one) however if you want to use multiple files that is ok too.

In the Texture Mapper of MS you need to have selected you faces before you attempt to UV map them. Then you can just drag a box around the texture part you want to map it. It just takes a bit of getting used to. Biffa has done a good job and is quite the texture artist (something which I find harder than the poly modelling), perhaps he can give you some more tips.

Regards

S.

[benpark]

Thanks, it is a world better going from the faces. Now I'm doing a screen shot from top, front, left and right and simply painting in what I need in Photoshop. It still seems like a crazy method to me, but I'll live with it.

In the reference photo I'm using (from "Death of the Leaping Horseman by Jason Mark), the lower quarter of the main structure is destroyed. I'd like to add some vertices to the "box" shape so that I can model this. Is there a way to add vertices to an existing structure in MS3D? I can't find any tutorials on this.

Lastly for the night, what's the best way to get these on a map, so I can judge the scale better?

Thanks for all the help.[&o]

[Stridor]

Ben,

Just as a general reply.

In 3D it is often the right tool for the right job.

MS3D is great because it can do everything! However it excels at nothing. You still need it in your modelling armoury as it is the final common pathway for most things however (unless you have max that is).

MM is now the best tool for maps now bar none [:D]

If what you want to do is architecture you are probably much better served using google sketchup as this is it’s raison d’être. You can do architecture modelling probably 5-10 x faster in SU rather than MS3D or even max. You still need to bring the final SU model into MS3D to do final texturing + bones placement because the SU system essentially applies one texture to one face (there is no concept of UV mapping) but even still I think you will find it faster than MS3D alone.

SU can't do animation so if you want to do vehicles you can do them in SU but would need to bring them into MS3D to do the animation (and texturing).

As I indicated in an earlier post the texturing in MS3D is not that bad, you just need to get the hang of it. It only does Cartesian mapping (no fancy polar maps) but it is still more than enough modelling power for PCK. The secret is to select the face you want first (as part of a mesh group) go into the texture coordinate editor, select the mesh group from the drop down box and then select the facing direction (top / bottom / left / right etc). Press the remap button and you should see the face mapped to the texture. Now use the region option and draw a bounding box around the texture area you want to map. Press remap again. Now use the scale/move/rotate etc options to position your UV map as accurately as you like. Play with the options; remember you can always undo several levels if you make a mistake.

Anyway I hope that is enough to give you some ideas.

Oh yeah to get SU models into MS3D you need the free directX exporter which I think I mentioned in one of the tutorials. In terms of scaling the factor is 0.3937 (eg if in your model 1 MS3D unit = 1 meter then in the directX export options ensure you scale by 0.3937 as I have demonstrated in the vehicle animation tutorial).

Enjoy

S.

[Biffa]

I just got a time out expiry on a big post while trying to look for a link [:@]
 
If he was still alive Rene Descartes would have been really bad at skinning imho - "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it".
 
Phooowey I say, block it all in together and keep it simple.
 
Looking through the exsisting PCK models when I first started it seemed that there has been so many different ways that the work has been done, it's like each building has been done by a different modeller...so you can't take much of a guide off them. If it's any help I've just kept everything simple, like myself...
 
I think of things in pretty simple terms too so maybe this'll help:
 
Imagine a persons skin has been totally flailed off their body then stretch out to dry, well if you were to skin a human that would be the shape you would need to start off with in your graphics file. You know it would fit and that all of the colours and shades would line up and look correct. You can do this with any solid object including your buildings. I mostly attach everything then blitz it, seems to work.
 
Here's a good more solid example: http://www.3d2k.com/benforce/tutorials/AmbientOcclusion/AmbientOcclusion.html
 
To help you I'd suggest LithUnwrap, programmes like Chilli, Deep, Drape etc all cost money. Lith is free tho I've never used it myself. If you can get your texture graphics to work (line up) nicely then that is most of the battle won imho, MS may have a plugin similiar already but I doubt if it's as good.
 
Download: http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=198
 
I only use MS3D for exporting and everything I know is self taught so I'm not the best person to advise you ben, my brain works differently to most, if at all... I mostly start with the texture then make the model....[:o]  which is totally totally wrong and very aaf.
 
The one thing I do know about MS3D which is the best thing, is that there is tons and tons of support, tools, tutorials etc, follow the chum website/forum or start here:
 
http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/super-duper-modeling-skining-animateing-tutorials
 
Also what are you working on, I'm totally confused, your factory map or starting an urban map? I'm doing extra stuff for both to help.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[benpark]

Thanks for the further tips. It's gotten better once I decided to do as Stridor suggested by selecting the faces (after which I grouped as right, left etc). Working from the screen shots is a method I'm fairly comfortable with.

Contrary to my complaints about the skinning, MS3D is the first modeling program I've actually stuck with enough to get this far. I teach at a few art colleges in NYC, so I have use of some pretty heavy duty programs if needed-but this one is fine for me.

Biffa, your methods are...unsound...

...but obviously work. I'm going to finish up the row house asap, but until I got the scaling info, I wanted a crack at something that seemed beyond my grasp. I'm using this experience as a 3d boot camp, as well as a way to get some more models into a game I enjoy. I'll try my hand at skinning the grain elevator. I also won't feel bad if it stinks and "someone" wants to have a go as well.

If he was still alive Rene Descartes would have been really bad at skinning imho - "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it".

Good stuff.

[benpark]

I've been re-reading this post about similar issues:

tm.asp?m=1797769&mpage=2&key=scene%2Ceditor�

I've tried the model of the 3 story building in the Scene Editor, but it is rather small and untextured. I added the following text to the "Media.xml" in my testing map folder:

<resource id="Pharmacy" filename="Mods/Benpark/Pharmacy.x"/>
<resource id="Pharmacy.dds" filename="Mods/Benpark/Pharmacy.dds"/>

I had tried a few renamings of the texture .dds that Biffa did, but it's still not showing in the SE, but the model is (puny though it is). Could it be something I'm not setting in the .x file export from MS3D?