Attacking with loaned units ?

[eske]

(version 1.02k)
Is this the rules or a bug ??

Say war exists between Turkey and Spain. Both are allied with GB.
GB loans fleets to Turkey. Turkey attacks spanish fleets with GB fleets. (Blows them out of the water !! )
Gets loads of PPs.
Next month GB sails fleets back home, safely, unless Spain DoW's next month (When half their fleet is sunk).

I can't find rules on this anywhere.

Somewhere in a thread I got the impression this would force a DoW from GB against Spain.
(But leave Spain no options for call to allies)

But as of 1.02k no DoW is happening !

Even with that I believe this allows naval ambushes to a degree that stops any navy from wanting to leave home ports.
(In 1.03 I actually believe GB would also gain PPs.)

Is this really the rules, and do they apply to corps as well ?

/eske

[delatbabel]

It's a bug.  I'm sure it's been mentioned here before but you shouldn't be allowed to use forces that aren't at war with major power X to attack major power X.  The declaration of war should have happened before those forces are used -- this is what combined movement would achieve if it were implemented.

If anyone finds the original thread either add it to the bug tracker or bring it to my attention and I'll add it.

[datacollectioncenter]

Yea. What should have happened is that the British (While still loaned) should not have participated in the battle without the DOW???
 
 

[eske]

Would that have been a normal DoW in diplo phase, or an automatic DoW, when the naval battle takes place ??
 
/eske

[j-s]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Yea. What should have happened is that the British (While still loaned) should not have participated in the battle without the DOW???

How do you deal with this?
1. GB loans fleets to turkey
2. turkey transports/is ready to transport invasion troops to Spanish coastal with GB fleets

Can Spain attack turkish invasion forces if they are transported by GB fleets? Per original rules, they can.

[delatbabel]

ORIGINAL: j-s

How do you deal with this?
1. GB loans fleets to turkey
2. turkey transports/is ready to transport invasion troops to Spanish coastal with GB fleets

Can Spain attack turkish invasion forces if they are transported by GB fleets? Per original rules, they can.

I'm sure this has been raised before, I can't find the thread at the moment though.

As per the original rules, yes they can.

As per the current situation, fleets can now be loaned and they behave like fleets of the recipient, and so yes they can be attacked by Spain, without a declaration of war.

As per some future development promise, Marshall has stated that handling an attack on a non-enemy's fleet is too hard to code and so if the reverse happens (Turkey loans corps to GB and GB transports those on GB fleets) the GB fleets will be able to be attacked by Turkey but a declaration of war (-4pp) will be required. I am guessing, though, that if GB has Turkish corps on loan and Spain is not at war with GB then GB will not be able to invade Spain with those corps because they aren't at war with Turkey while they are on loan to GB.

The even longer answer is: probably needs someone to generate a test game and see what happens, and save this along with a bug report/feature request stating the desired behaviour.

Having played GB in FTF and email games a number of times I think it's important to allow neutral fleets carrying enemy corps to be attacked, without a declaration of war, because it's only with that threat ("I will sink your ships if you carry French troops and it won't cost me PPs to do so") and a decent projection of fleet power into the Mediterranean can GB control French access to and from Africa. My usual modus operandi is to allow Turkey or Spain to transport French corps to Africa, on the understanding that those corps, once there, will never get back to France nor will they ever be supplied or reinforced and thus die a slow death of attrition.

[j-s]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

ORIGINAL: j-s

How do you deal with this?
1. GB loans fleets to turkey
2. turkey transports/is ready to transport invasion troops to Spanish coastal with GB fleets

Can Spain attack turkish invasion forces if they are transported by GB fleets? Per original rules, they can.

Having played GB in FTF and email games a number of times I think it's important to allow neutral fleets carrying enemy corps to be attacked, without a declaration of war, because it's only with that threat ("I will sink your ships if you carry French troops and it won't cost me PPs to do so")

I agree with you. Let's hope it's that way.

Another problem is that you should get fleet loaned more than one months at time. Is it possible to add time scale, like "Loan fleet I / Corps I from GB to Turkey as 3 months". That would help transporting troops, becouse you need to be in the same port if you like to transport corps. If you loan fleet from AI, first turn goes when you move fleet to your own port.