Looking for German opponent

[DavidFaust]

Keep the screen shots comming plz

[Morphy]

ORIGINAL: TDV
Well, I must leave at least 3-4 full divisions in Leningrad, then at least 2-3 more good divisions at Leningrad's supply hex.
Then you will cut them off and I will lose 5-7 full divisions. For what?

For keeping my 3 armored corps away from Moscow for 3-4 turns. Do you think sacrifice of 7 full divisions for Bryansk is a good deal? You left plenty of infantry divisions near Bryansk and I dare to claim if you had detract just 1 infantry division from each army over there you would have had these 7 infantry divisions and I still wouldn't attack there. Instead I was able to use my 3 strong (not much fight so far and they received 100% replacement bonus first!) as northern pincer. I claim without the 4th Panzerarmee the battle of Rzev-Vyazma would have not been possible. So you basically traded Bryansk for Leningrad, loosing both. Good for me!

ORIGINAL: TDV
Russians can't evacuate as many factories as they want. Russians have a quota. Be sure,I used this quota in full.

cool! Bad for you buddy!

ORIGINAL: TDV

If I leave a good Army to protect a supply hex NW to Tikhvin you can just cut off the supply lines a bit south of Tikhvin and I lose one more good Army in the strategic encirclement.
If I leave a weak Army to protect a supply hex NW to Tikhvin you can force it to retreat without any problem (exactly like you destroyed my weak Army in Leningrad)

Well, how about time? The time is extremely important in '41 summer. A few extra weeks when my units are near Leningrad instead of attacking Moscow are extremely precious. Readiness level of Germans in October will fall drastically thus if we both think Leningrad cannot be saved it is a question of utmost importance to hold there as many German units as possible.

ORIGINAL: TDV
By the way I like your tactics: you usually break the defence by two PzCorps on flanks only. All other PzCorps follow them and form the encirclement.

Thanks, that's the way the game engine is constructed: to encircle with panzer units and destroy them with infantry. That's it!

I still believe it was a mistake of yours to leave Leningrad without fight. If you were afraid of loosing units in the city: they could have been evacuated even after the city is cut off. As long as the hex NW to Tikhvin is in your hands and is it very easy to hold (next to the hex are swamps which limit my offensive!)

[Morphy]

ORIGINAL: kingtiger_501

Keep the screen shots comming plz

When I have the laptop with Windows XP I'll enclose screenshots for sure. You will be amazed: 7 strong Soviet armies encircled!

Currently I use Windows Disaster (also nicknamed by some people 'Vista').

[TDV]

ORIGINAL: Morphy

I still believe it was a mistake of yours to leave Leningrad without fight. If you were afraid of loosing units in the city: they could have been evacuated even after the city is cut off. As long as the hex NW to Tikhvin is in your hands and is it very easy to hold (next to the hex are swamps which limit my offensive!)

I must agree. I never tried NAVAL evacuation from Leningrad when the city's railway was cut off . If it is possible you are right I might hold Leningrad 3 more turns.

[Morphy]

Yes, it is possible... And you were able to hold the city for at least 3 more weeks keeping the armored units away from Moscow.

[PaxMondo]

how do you do naval transport?

[private_g]

I think it won't take too long since now... Gorki should fall before blizzards...

So. May I be next, O Mastah Morphy?

[TDV]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

how do you do naval transport?

You can evacuate troops from a port even if all railways are cut off. Usually it's used for Odessa evacuation. For the Soviet size it's also possible in Tallin, now you see it also possible in Leningrad.
(Actually it should be named LAKE transportarion because of over Ladoga lake.)
You can use the button RAIL TRANS for that.

By the way, one of house of rules tells "Usage of naval transportation is limited to 3 stacking points per turn and destination must be a port." What destination I must use to evacuate troops from Leningrad? In September 1941 Russians usually have only one port and that port in on the Black sea. Evacuate troops from Leningrad to Novorossiisk? Nonsence.

[Morphy]

Sept. 14th, 1941.

Beginning of third week of Operation Typhoon.

Huge offensive performed by Heeresgruppe Mitte.

After getting huge reinforcements from Heeresgruppe Sued and Nord (planes, tanks and so on) Germans encircled 7 strong Soviet units in Rzhev-Vyazma area. They were so powerful, some of them could not be destroyed even when attacked 1 week after severing their supply. It is estimated average army consists of >1400 inf. squads and >100 AFVs. So far 3 armies have survived, others were destroyed. Also Germans pushed back almost reaching Moscow.

On second week Soviets evacuated Bryansk salient leaving huge area to Germans.

On Sept. 18th northern pincer composed of units formerly belonging to Panzerarmee 4 seized strong defensive positions north to Moscow. Tough battles with huge losses on both sides.

On second week exact losses of Soviets are unknown, but they lost at least 4000 inf. squads. Losses on Sept. 20th:

(week 14-21 Sept./total)
Axis:
inf. 746/5311
AFVs: 171/1570
Guns: 47/749
Planes: 97/1867

Soviets:
inf.: 4901/45337
AFVs: 614/9541
Guns: 1145/16193
Planes: 11/12211

It is estimated the 3 encircled armies have >4000 inf. squads and >300 AFVs, what would increase Soviet losses to 50.000 inf. squads and 10.000 AFVs.

After fierce battles in the air VVS is less active - they rather try sneak attacks on remote German units.

A few more weeks and Soviets will have nobody to command...

Other fronts:
Heeresgruppe Nord: Tikhvin taken on Sept. 16th. Thus all 3 objectives have been achieved (Leningrad, Tikhvin, Demyansk).

Heeresgruppe Sued: Kursk taken, Orel taken, Crimea almost entirely taken. Just moving east without any resistance.

Screenshots coming soon...

[DavidFaust]

What rules do you have for this game?

[Morphy]

Standard rules with some modifications like:
- no restriction for the Finns (TDV's proposal)
- production can be changed (my proposal)
- a unit with SL=0 may attack if readiness level is suffice (my proposal which has been used by both sides - TDV broke my railroad lines many times because of this rule).

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Morphy

Yes, it is possible... And you were able to hold the city for at least 3 more weeks keeping the armored units away from Moscow.

This might be fatal mistake for SOV. Those extra Panzers are a big deal. If Moscow falls, i think game over. Right? Enough VP's?

[Morphy]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Morphy

Yes, it is possible... And you were able to hold the city for at least 3 more weeks keeping the armored units away from Moscow.

This might be fatal mistake for SOV. Those extra Panzers are a big deal. If Moscow falls, i think game over. Right? Enough VP's?

No, you need at least 5 VP's and Moscow has 3, Leningrad 1, you still need 1 more. The closest cities are: Gorki, Stalingrad, Saratov.

[Morphy]

I wrote an extra large post and it was cut...

Anyhow, battle report on Sept. 21st.

Heeresgruppe Nord - moving forward without any resistance. Has been strenghtened by the Finnish Karelian Army and it was really needed since they lost 4. Panzerarmee for the sake of The Operation Typhoon.

Heeresgruppe Sued: moving forward without any resistance as well. Secured Rostov area, pushing toward Stalingrad and Caucasus. Also - news of the day - on Sept. 26th 1 Fort Romanian Division supported by 4th Romanian Artillery took Sevastopol without any fight. It seems Soviet situation is disastrous if they gave away the most important port of Black Sea. But where is the Black Sea Fleet?

[Morphy]

Heeresgruppe Mitte:

Great victory!!!
Out of the first kessel on Sept. 21st only 3 Soviet armies survived and 1 of them - 31st -recaptured Rzhev seizing some supply for Wehrmacht. However their success proved to be shortlived. German counterattack destroyed 31st and 8th Army. 16th has not been attacked. Soviets lost at least 2500 inf. squads and over 500 AFVs.

Northern pincer (4. Panzerarmee (Hoepner), 16. Armee (Schobert) and 4. Armee (Kesselring)) broke through lines defended by 4th Shock Army, which offered weak resistance, and after destruction of Soviet HQ they entered eastern suburbs of Moscow! XXXIX Panzerkorps as the first unit since the French along with the Poles took Moscow in 1812 enemy invaders appeared on streets of the Soviet capital. Surprisingly eastern part of the city wasn't garrisoned with strong forces and Luftwaffe recon did a good job.

Southern pincer (2. Panzerarmee (Guderian), 3. Panzerarmee (Hoth), 9. Armee (Zeitzler) and 2. Armee (Lindemann) received strong Luftwaffe support and pushed back 2 strong Soviet armies: 89th and 25th. Then German tanks engaged much weaker 41st Army which was preparing defensive positions and this unit was smashed as well and when they turned north they... met XXXIX Panzerkorps!!! Moscow is besieged!!!

The southern pincer suffered heavy losses but it was worth it!

Also Luftwaffe was badly decimated due to enormous activity of the VVS. Fortunately after 2 days their aerial resistance markedly decreased and eventually their fighters disappeared... They lost over 400 planes. Their reserves must be depleted now.

Southern to the south pincer we tried to capture Orel but we failed. Also 2 weak Soviet armies were destroyed southern to the city.

We also secured a bridghead on Don southern to Voronezh.

[Morphy]

Losses for both sides:

Germans
inf. 593/5930 (sic! equal 1:10 ratio
AFVs: 189/1774 (ouch!)
Guns: 59/829
Planes: 180/2132 (ouch!)

Soviets:
inf.: 4633/49970
AFVs: 723/10264
Guns: 1201/17394
Planes: 427/12832

[Morphy]

Prospectives for the end of summer:

There is a strong group of Soviet forces in Moscow - 36th, 67th, 88th and 5th Shock armies) and they will be probably destroyed in next week or two.

The Soviets will probably try to link up with their besieged garrison as there are still strong forces in the vicity: 30th, 82nd, 79th, 2nd Shock plus heavily battered 89th Army.

We should capture Orel and Voronezh before October and prepare for fall campaign.

Meteorologists say the weather can worsen any time and we know what will happen to Soviet soft, ground roads when rains begin.

Wehrmacht is not in a good shape: we lost plenty of tanks and total number of AFVs has decreased, although their quality has improved due to mass production of Pz-III H.

Luftwaffe has been decimated and we experience huge shortages of fighter planes. Fw-190 is a superior aircraft but its production is expensive what means the main fighter is still BF-109 which is no longer manufactured. Also Stukas fall from the Soviet sky like drops of rain. They are obsolete and can combat enemy forces only if aerial superiority is secured.

[asa]

ORIGINAL: Morphy
Also Stukas fall from the Soviet sky like drops of rain. They are obsolete and can combat enemy forces only if aerial superiority is secured.

Pity one can't replace those old Ju87B's with another decent dive bomber, and has to wait at least for Ausf. D. But, alas, this is history !

[Morphy]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
This might be fatal mistake for SOV. Those extra Panzers are a big deal. If Moscow falls, i think game over. Right? Enough VP's?

This is the point: exactly the same unit which took Leningrad was the first to capture 2 eastern hexes of Moscow: XXXIX Panzerkorps composed of: 7. Panzer Division, 20. Panzer Division, 14. Infanterie Division (Mot.), 20. Infanterie Division (Mot.), 101. Panzerbattalion plus some Jgdpz-II, artillery and flak units. Really strong in number but has only old tanks (Pz-II, Czech tanks, and approx. 50 Pz-IVd/e).

All in all: had TDV defended Leningrad Moscow would probably not be besieged now.

[Morphy]

ORIGINAL: kingtiger_501

Keep the screen shots comming plz

OK!

AGN on August 24th: pay attention to XXXIX Panzerkorps: it is the unit which captured Leningrad one week earlier.