RHSMAIO 7.91

[Buck Beach]

I'm at 3/7/1942 turn of the subject scenario and wanted to reports several observations specific to the MAIO and others relating to the 7.91 level in general.

Japanese have taken almost everything down to Noumea, the entire Fiji Island and the Samoas. Also they have taken all of south New Guinea (including Port Mors bey). They have taken everything except Singapore and Victoria Point and all the important locations on Borneo. They have just landed at the point base on Java just north of Batavia.

So far this scenario has been fun and especially challenging logistically in the South Pacific in supplying and reinforcing New Zealand and Australia from Northern and Central America (and Pearl) by routing the TFs as far south as the Society Islands and then on to Wellington New Zealand. Supply through Eastern Australia's Perth has been easier from the north. There are 4 major bases still holding out on Luzon with numerous other of the Philippine small island bases not yet attacked.

Two areas of concern with the scenario is the lack of Japanese air pressure on the Ports/Bases of Singapore and Rangoon and shipping to and from these ports. The Japanese aircraft from captured airbases hit the more obscure surrounding bases.

OK, these issues are directed to the 7.91 level. Numerous attacks by both side's ASW ships/TFs has resulted in no hits on the subs. There has been however 4 successful aircraft hits on US subs resulting in one sunk. My issue with the rapid ship repairs was addressed in another thread, albeit not very satisfactorily.

I can't get the Alaskan bases of Seward and Kenai to hold any supplies sent there. Also there seems to be something wrong with the bases of Recipe and Valparaiso. Not a severe problem but while I can select them as home ports the "Return to (named base)" button at the bottom of the TF screen is shaded out.

The Vildebeest/Vincent aircraft range is to great. They execute torpedo attacks out to 7 hexes and have a transfer range of 21 hexes. Refer to this link for a more realistic range:

http://www.aviamil.net/entry.php?m=vildebeest

[el cid again]

Interestingly, RHSMAIO was designed for you, personally. It also was the easiest of all scenarios - because it was just s slight variation of AIO to correct some of its problems under AI management.

What we cannot do is give AI any "intelligence" - although I proposed a utility solution and we do have a programmer who wants to do a lot more (the writer of the installer/switcher) than Matrix is willing to do. But we need a lot of data and no one is using the "guided AI service" which would let us identify where specifically the AI is missing things.

We also cannot change the rate of repairs - which in my view is more or less abstractly correct - but not technically precice enough to be fun.
Basic principles - the Allies need less time - big ports help - repair ships help - naval HQ help - are all in there though. It is not a terrible system.

You have to watch closely during animation of attacks on submarines because the weapons used are not identified - the strings are too long and do not display (something we may be able to fix). But the animation DOES tell you when a ship actually attacks a sub - every time. It appears to be working. One player well into the campaign has lost enough subs we can say it is in the right ball park. I remain skeptical that ASW weapons work on planes - I think planes use something like a generic bomb or a specific bomb device. By using stock slots we insure we don't change things like that - but it isn't the same thing as a true AS attack should be. [Blimps are an exception because they ARE ships in fact - so they use ship ASW devices for sure]

Actually - the Alaskan bases are not meant to be supplied - but to SEND supply to Anchorage. It didn't work that way - and I had to work hard to get it right. Seward is the main port - and that is where the Alaska RR originated - everything heavy being carried inland on it. By putting HQ at Anchorage - and big enough base levels - I got supply to flow as it should. Whittier is a wierd case - it is really connected by PIPELINE to Anchorage - and it is (to this day) where the fuel for Elmendorf comes from. But anything unloaded there is supposed to go to Anchorage.
Kenai is a special case: older than any of the other towns - it was once a Russian capital - it starts the game isolated as it reall was in 1941. But eventually a road is built - mid war - just as IRL. After that you COULD land supplies there - but it would work like Seward and Whittier do - sending them to Anchorage. Since it is not on the RR it will do so less efficiently. In war Kenai's function was just a forward fighter field.

We used to have a LOT of trouble with the ports on the map edge. They would disappear. Not all ship tracks are visible over their entire length. This seems to be a code issue. Report any issues - in case we can deal with them.

MAIO is a very interesting variation on the strategy of Japan - actually contemplated by a staff officer assigned by Adm Ukagi in 1942. It represents a direct attaempt to cut the Allied LOC as well as to give Japan valuable ores on New Caledonia.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Interestingly, RHSMAIO was designed for you, personally. It also was the easiest of all scenarios - because it was just s slight variation of AIO to correct some of its problems under AI management.

Actually, my ideal scenario would have been the MAIO without the hyper-improved Japanese aircraft.

What we cannot do is give AI any "intelligence" - although I proposed a utility solution and we do have a programmer who wants to do a lot more (the writer of the installer/switcher) than Matrix is willing to do. But we need a lot of data and no one is using the "guided AI service" which would let us identify where specifically the AI is missing things.

We also cannot change the rate of repairs - which in my view is more or less abstractly correct - but not technically precice enough to be fun.
Basic principles - the Allies need less time - big ports help - repair ships help - naval HQ help - are all in there though. It is not a terrible system.

The increased efficiency maybe partly my fault, as I strove to bring the West Coast ports up to full repair capacity from turn one. I may end up turning them off. It sure helped bleed off excess supply capacity during the 3 game months. Note, I used ALL of the facilities on the West Coast for my ship repair/refits activities. .

You have to watch closely during animation of attacks on submarines because the weapons used are not identified - the strings are too long and do not display (something we may be able to fix). But the animation DOES tell you when a ship actually attacks a sub - every time. It appears to be working. One player well into the campaign has lost enough subs we can say it is in the right ball park. I remain skeptical that ASW weapons work on planes - I think planes use something like a generic bomb or a specific bomb device. By using stock slots we insure we don't change things like that - but it isn't the same thing as a true AS attack should be. [Blimps are an exception because they ARE ships in fact - so they use ship ASW devices for sure]

I am not saying they are completely out of line with RL, just that part of the GAME now is just going through the motions. That may not be all bad at this point. I will have to see what happens as equipment improves (if I can stick it out).

Actually - the Alaskan bases are not meant to be supplied - but to SEND supply to Anchorage. It didn't work that way - and I had to work hard to get it right. Seward is the main port - and that is where the Alaska RR originated - everything heavy being carried inland on it. By putting HQ at Anchorage - and big enough base levels - I got supply to flow as it should. Whittier is a wierd case - it is really connected by PIPELINE to Anchorage - and it is (to this day) where the fuel for Elmendorf comes from. But anything unloaded there is supposed to go to Anchorage.
Kenai is a special case: older than any of the other towns - it was once a Russian capital - it starts the game isolated as it reall was in 1941. But eventually a road is built - mid war - just as IRL.

I am resupplying it (Kenai) by ship and the supplies bleed off instantly (or so it seems).

After that you COULD land supplies there - but it would work like Seward and Whittier do - sending them to Anchorage. Since it is not on the RR it will do so less efficiently. In war Kenai's function was just a forward fighter field.

This is why I am supplying Kenai at all. I am trying very hard to follow history giving Alaska the preliminary attention as IRL sending all designate units there and not just re-directing everything to the Central and South Pacific. Additionally, they do get a considerable supply allotment, not only to support the units but to build up Resource capacity, that I hope to later ferry back stateside to utilize the empty ships returning. BTW, I have even set-up the sub base at Dutch Harbor (albeit a bit early).

We used to have a LOT of trouble with the ports on the map edge. They would disappear. Not all ship tracks are visible over their entire length. This seems to be a code issue. Report any issues - in case we can deal with them.

As far as I can tell these are the only two ports effected and to what other effect, I don't know (yet). I have really just started setting up this route to the front.

MAIO is a very interesting variation on the strategy of Japan - actually contemplated by a staff officer assigned by Adm Ukagi in 1942. It represents a direct attaempt to cut the Allied LOC as well as to give Japan valuable ores on New Caledonia.

Although, I am certain these outlying bases will not be supported to any extent by the Japanese AI, as the game progresses, so far it has been fun. To me this game is a lot more than just exchanging shots

[el cid again]

What are "hyper improved Japanese aircraft?"

As far as I know - we have only made incrimental and fairly moderate changes to aircraft - some of these changes more
difficult to do than others.

If you really mean this - and if you have a particular earlier set you think are better - it is easy to implement the scenario with
that aircraft file ( updating data into the air group file ).

I bet - if we compare current RHS aircraft with any earlier set - with CHS - with stock - or with any other WITP mod -
and use a standard test bed measuring all sorts of things - we will end up concluding the best relative representation is the current set.
So far - I am a microscopic player - I am very pleased with the performance of the aircraft set. Allegations "the Pete is useless" are wrong - it is not a super plane by any means - but it is very nice - and if I don't like it - it is because it cannot be a fighter and a attack plane at the same time. Looks like AE won't fix this properly either - the simple idea of "let things do what they really could do" having eluded whoever is implementing this stuff. What is the point of seaplane fighters unable to fly real fighter missions they really flew?

Enough digression - what are you talking about - what planes did you like better - and why?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

ORIGINAL: el cid again


Actually - the Alaskan bases are not meant to be supplied - but to SEND supply to Anchorage. It didn't work that way - and I had to work hard to get it right. Seward is the main port - and that is where the Alaska RR originated - everything heavy being carried inland on it. By putting HQ at Anchorage - and big enough base levels - I got supply to flow as it should. Whittier is a wierd case - it is really connected by PIPELINE to Anchorage - and it is (to this day) where the fuel for Elmendorf comes from. But anything unloaded there is supposed to go to Anchorage.
Kenai is a special case: older than any of the other towns - it was once a Russian capital - it starts the game isolated as it reall was in 1941. But eventually a road is built - mid war - just as IRL.

I am resupplying it (Kenai) by ship and the supplies bleed off instantly (or so it seems).

After that you COULD land supplies there - but it would work like Seward and Whittier do - sending them to Anchorage. Since it is not on the RR it will do so less efficiently. In war Kenai's function was just a forward fighter field.

This is why I am supplying Kenai at all. I am trying very hard to follow history giving Alaska the preliminary attention as IRL sending all designate units there and not just re-directing everything to the Central and South Pacific. Additionally, they do get a considerable supply allotment, not only to support the units but to build up Resource capacity, that I hope to later ferry back stateside to utilize the empty ships returning. BTW, I have even set-up the sub base at Dutch Harbor (albeit a bit early).

It is possible you are using the wrong pwhex file. If the files are right, standard pwhex.dat should have Kenai isolated by land - no road.
After a certain date you then shift to using railroadpwhex.dat - and the road appears. THEN the supplies will "bleed off".

It is possible that a huge demand might draw the supplies anyway - IF supplies will bleed off from a hex with no trail, road or railroad? I don't think this happens. But IF there is a huge demand in Anchorage - maybe.

Alaska was both a sideshow and a vital theater. It was used in fact as a laboratory to learn how to fight this kind of war - and boy were we ignorant. We had to learn about boots on the ground recon - and we paid a horrible price for not doing that when Canadian and US units each "knew" the other was the enemy. The Eskimo Scouts addressed the problem - and the Alamo Scouts were modeled on them. We learned lots of lesser lessons too. By later war years Alaska was a vital point for bombing on the cheap - because you could reach Japan WITHOUT using heavy bombers. Also - when we wanted to broadcast surrender terms - it was done from Adak - the closest point we had to Japan.

If you fight the right enemy players - Alaska may be a really big threat area - Nemo for one likes to invade it. Also - Alaska was considered as a fast road to victory - IF the Russians would permit use of bases on Kamchatka and Amur Province.

BUT IF you fight AI or most players - Alaska is not in the game - almost. You should always base subs far out on the Aleutians - and fix damaged ones to 0 floatation at Anchorage - then send them to Seattle for system repairs.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


We used to have a LOT of trouble with the ports on the map edge. They would disappear. Not all ship tracks are visible over their entire length. This seems to be a code issue. Report any issues - in case we can deal with them.

As far as I can tell these are the only two ports effected and to what other effect, I don't know (yet). I have really just started setting up this route to the front.

MAIO is a very interesting variation on the strategy of Japan - actually contemplated by a staff officer assigned by Adm Ukagi in 1942. It represents a direct attaempt to cut the Allied LOC as well as to give Japan valuable ores on New Caledonia.

Although, I am certain these outlying bases will not be supported to any extent by the Japanese AI, as the game progresses, so far it has been fun. To me this game is a lot more than just exchanging shots

[/quote]

The function of the ports is to help you with ships unable to make the entire track unrefueled. They also permit modeling of some of the trade along these routes - but it is not important. I have not had any problems with them so far - and I am doing an Allied game at the moment.

I think MAIO is unsung - but it is interestingly different - and probably would be very exciting in human vs human play.

[el cid again]

OK - not much I can do at a place like San Francisco. But I can make repairs take longer at PH. I also can get the squad count/supply consumption rate right - improve demolition if invaded slightly - and improve the ability of a Hawaii abandoned except for its static units to defend - slightly. This will be tested and if it indeed moves repair rates in the right direction - we can issue it. Send me an address and I will let you have the unissued file version for testing. We might be able to do this in other places as well. Hawaii is unusual - the supply sink is organic - and it fighte with the leadership and planning of a good unit. We don't need to use the support squad as the only device here.

[Buck Beach]

Damn, damn and triple damn. I just lost or was timed out in my response to you here being less verbose.

My hyper comment refers only to your combining the JPN & JPA a/c and the inclusion of some German models (I think). Those changes are not strategical (IMO) and just not my preference.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again


It is possible you are using the wrong pwhex file. If the files are right, standard pwhex.dat should have Kenai isolated by land - no road.
After a certain date you then shift to using railroadpwhex.dat - and the road appears. THEN the supplies will "bleed off".

I am almost positive I am using the correct pwhex for the game time era, but will recheck. Actually, the supplies are unloaded from the ship but just don't appear at the base. There doesn't appear to be a bleed off per-say.

It is possible that a huge demand might draw the supplies anyway - IF supplies will bleed off from a hex with no trail, road or railroad? I don't think this happens. But IF there is a huge demand in Anchorage - maybe.

Alaska was both a sideshow and a vital theater. It was used in fact as a laboratory to learn how to fight this kind of war - and boy were we ignorant. We had to learn about boots on the ground recon - and we paid a horrible price for not doing that when Canadian and US units each "knew" the other was the enemy. The Eskimo Scouts addressed the problem - and the Alamo Scouts were modeled on them. We learned lots of lesser lessons too. By later war years Alaska was a vital point for bombing on the cheap - because you could reach Japan WITHOUT using heavy bombers. Also - when we wanted to broadcast surrender terms - it was done from Adak - the closest point we had to Japan.

If you fight the right enemy players - Alaska may be a really big threat area - Nemo for one likes to invade it. Also - Alaska was considered as a fast road to victory - IF the Russians would permit use of bases on Kamchatka and Amur Province.

BUT IF you fight AI or most players - Alaska is not in the game - almost.
You don't know how much I wish for better AI abilities of being half (or even less) than that of a live player, but alas I know it won't happen.

You should always base subs far out on the Aleutians - and fix damaged ones to 0 floatation at Anchorage - then send them to Seattle for system repairs.

I am trying to use the historical location and it also provides me the fighter protection of Umiak Is. when it's built up (in process). Thanks for the tips. I will plan to go further out on the island chain at little later. I was letting my subs repair float damage at Dutch Harbor and then off to Seattle for systems repair but I can see Anchorage would be better.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


We used to have a LOT of trouble with the ports on the map edge. They would disappear. Not all ship tracks are visible over their entire length. This seems to be a code issue. Report any issues - in case we can deal with them.

As far as I can tell these are the only two ports effected and to what other effect, I don't know (yet). I have really just started setting up this route to the front.

MAIO is a very interesting variation on the strategy of Japan - actually contemplated by a staff officer assigned by Adm Ukagi in 1942. It represents a direct attaempt to cut the Allied LOC as well as to give Japan valuable ores on New Caledonia.

Although, I am certain these outlying bases will not be supported to any extent by the Japanese AI, as the game progresses, so far it has been fun. To me this game is a lot more than just exchanging shots

The function of the ports is to help you with ships unable to make the entire track unrefueled. They also permit modeling of some of the trade along these routes - but it is not important. I have not had any problems with them so far - and I am doing an Allied game at the moment.

I think MAIO is unsung - but it is interestingly different - and probably would be very exciting in human vs human play.



[/quote]

Sid, I don't know what is going on but I got timed out again and I am too frustrated to share with you more of my thoughts of the MAIO so far except that I totally agree with you that two experienced PBEM players could get some long term enjoyment from this mod. Caveat - if some of the 7.91 issues are explored and addressed.

[ChickenOfTheSea]

Buck, I think this is a server issue as some others are making similar complaints. Matrix is migrating to new servers and this is should be just a temporary glitch.

RHS 7.91 in EBO form is getting at least several shakedown cruises right now so that El Cid can do a thorough assessment of where things stand. I also like MAIO for an AI scenario and think it would be a good human on human one as well. I started an EOS game against a friend, but used a more MAIO like start (I didn't think I could pull off the Hawaiian invasion). We are hoping to restart after the 7.91 shakedown cruise and whatever adjustments are necessary.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

Damn, damn and triple damn. I just lost or was timed out in my response to you here being less verbose.

My hyper comment refers only to your combining the JPN & JPA a/c and the inclusion of some German models (I think). Those changes are not strategical (IMO) and just not my preference.

This is common to all EOS family scenarios - not just MAIO - and it was intended to reflect better planning in them.

You must have read a USN psych evaluation of me - its only "negative" findings were

he is "slightly verbose" (every doctor who knows me wonders at the use of the qualifier "slightly")
he is "overly concerned with ethics" (which, on its face, seems impossible)

It would not be easy to use the CVO planes in MAIO - but I could redo it now - as a variation of CAIO - which DOES use those planes.
CAIO is built on the CVO foundation; MAIO is built on the EOS foundation. Japan would be a lot weaker for lots of reasons - and AI needs
all the help it can get IMHO. But for HUMAN play a SE scenario might be very interesting. Call it RHSNCO (New Caledonia Option?)

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

OK - not much I can do at a place like San Francisco. But I can make repairs take longer at PH. I also can get the squad count/supply consumption rate right - improve demolition if invaded slightly - and improve the ability of a Hawaii abandoned except for its static units to defend - slightly. This will be tested and if it indeed moves repair rates in the right direction - we can issue it. Send me an address and I will let you have the unissued file version for testing. We might be able to do this in other places as well. Hawaii is unusual - the supply sink is organic - and it fighte with the leadership and planning of a good unit. We don't need to use the support squad as the only device here.

Sid I will wait on the file. I really want to play with the current MAIO 7.91 a while longer before I tackle another infamous 1st turn in a new game.

[el cid again]

This file is unissued - but I sent a copy to Historiker and can send one to you - with a few other things addressed included. Send me an email so I capture the address you wish properly. If you wait a day - I will look at other sites - I am off for four days - but I already looked at - and addressed PH - which may be the only place we can fix - due to the small size of its supply sink. Big sinks make messing with the HQ meaningless.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

It is possible you are using the wrong pwhex file. If the files are right, standard pwhex.dat should have Kenai isolated by land - no road.
After a certain date you then shift to using railroadpwhex.dat - and the road appears. THEN the supplies will "bleed off".

OK Sid, I checked the early war pwhex and it appears that Kenai's is isolated/not connected correctly. I do see that Seward has a railroad/road connection going west included. Would this effect anything if the adjacent hex doesn't complete the connection?

So the issue of Kenai's supply is still a mystery. I currently have a supply ship there unloading that is on CS route from Anchorage. The base has 282/10 supplies with a 143 requirement supporting a Base unit and an USACE Eng unit. The base is set to expand both airbase and port.

[el cid again]

IF Kenai was a Level 3 port or above THEN the effect you describe should happen - vs all adjacent port hexes.

But if not - it is a "feature" - some unknown matter likely in the code in some way or other.