Where is 1.03 Update

[marcbarker]

this is a GAME....not real life...geesh....just make you think prior to bombarding cities..it is still an interesting twist...all I ask is give me the opportunity to decide what and how I want to play this game.......Like I said prior...remeber when you could play east front on the net....had to be a certain version or it would let you do it...why not have those same rules in place...the at one time had swastikas on the units but it could not be sold in germany so they got rid of it. If we keep going down this political correctness path history and the aspects of it are lost

[MrRoadrunner]

What was "politically correct" about anything that myself, or Osiris, has written? [X(] You seem to see boogymen where there are none.
You need to step back and see the whole picture? [&:]
 
We are discussing game scale and what the intentions of the original designers were. It is why I questioned you on making this more like Squad Leader. It is the scale. Will the add-ons really add to the game? And, remember it is a game that is over ten years old and still played?
Along with refugees you could have herds of sheep and cows? Wow, that would be great? [>:]
Maybe a horse could throw a shoe and slow down the wagon towing the guns?
Or, malaria could make some of your soldiers sick and lower their morale?
Or, when taking a village your soldiers would stop to pillage it?
 
Gosh, the add ons would be endless? [8|]
 
Seriously, I'd love to have the Swastikas back. That was real history. But, please, remember the game and it's design before wishing for stars or crooked crosses?
Neither Osiris or I were intent on anything politically correct. Sheesh! [:-]
 

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Along with refugees you could have herds of sheep

I was thinking of including Scot's to the British OOB, so that wouldn't work out very well.

Jason Petho

[R.E.LEE]

Agree i love all the german stuff,god i hate these people ,if war is so painful and the loss so great,why the hell do play war games .sorry man but these people who wanna erase history make me sick,go play pinball and bring on the SS Einsatz and swastikas.[:@]

ORIGINAL: barker

this is a GAME....not real life...geesh....just make you think prior to bombarding cities..it is still an interesting twist...all I ask is give me the opportunity to decide what and how I want to play this game.......Like I said prior...remeber when you could play east front on the net....had to be a certain version or it would let you do it...why not have those same rules in place...the at one time had swastikas on the units but it could not be sold in germany so they got rid of it. If we keep going down this political correctness path history and the aspects of it are lost

[osiris_slith]

HI

Thanks Roadrunner!

Its not about political correctness..I will be the last person in the world accused of that.

It just a game you are correct...it is a tactical simulation, an excercise like chess or checkers. Running around the board blasting civilian units sounds a bit morbid.

Losing VPs for blasting civilians?? Makes no sense and refugees had little to no effect on the German blitzkrieg in 1940 and certainly no effect on german operations in Russia in 1941 and anytime thereafter.

Most Western, Eastern European and Russian civilians were killed after the battle..long after the front line had moved on!

Including civilians in the CS series makes no sense at a tactical or operational level as they had zero effect on the outcome of the battles...so why include something that has no effect on the outcome.

Grand strategy level games like Ages of Empires, Civilization and a few others, civilians are included because they have an effect on the outcome. Production of war material, recruits for armies etc..even very few global grand strategy games include civilians.

At this time I know of no tactical, operational military game/simulations that include civilians because there effect on battle was zero..

I seriously doubt the CS community will support that kind of an idea.

Osiris

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Along with refugees you could have herds of sheep

I was thinking of including Scot's to the British OOB, so that wouldn't work out very well.

Jason Petho

Ah, Scotland. Where men are men and the sheep are very afraid? [;)]

[&o]

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Ah, Scotland. Where men are men and the sheep are very afraid? [;)]

[&o]

Glad you caught the intended humour!

Jason Petho

[marcbarker]

well lets just take it back to the real basics....the game from avalon hill Tactics....simple to play few pieces, few variants...there you go simulation at its best ....wait no tactics had the nuclear option...ohhhhhh goodness shal we include this...oh my...what a concept for a game...a board game.....how about another one SSI No Greater Glory! gave casulty reports in people killed wound and missing....oh no.......we can't have that....lol

[osiris_slith]

hehehe..I finally figured out the scot's, men and sheep joke...sorry slow today to much sun from all the tennis tournaments I play[:'(]

[cw58]

ORIGINAL: 1925frank

I don't know how the civilians are set up.  I don't think the game is set up so that a Soviet player is penalized for killing German civilians and vice versa. 

I'm guessing you could put friendly civilians on a road and fix them there.  That would create the impediment to road movement I mentioned earlier.  You can't shoot your own side, so the fixed civilians would stay there until enemy troops fired on them, which would unfix them, and they could run for cover, which is what you'd expect.  The roads would be cleared of civilians, but then you'd have to worry about enemy troops.  That might work quite well. 

Hi Frank

I was making an assumption about civilians with their negative VPs so I thought I'd better check. A German player IS penalized for killing Russian civilians. While checking that, I decided to see what the AI would do with civilians; it seems that Hal doesn't know it's a bad thing to kill civilians.[8|]


As for whether civilians should even be in CS:
Well, that's the great thing about this game. It's so very flexible. You want civilians?, put 'em in. Don't like 'em?, then don't. It's always nice to have a choice.[:)]

[sfinlay]

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Ah, Scotland. Where men are men and the sheep are very afraid? [;)]

[&o]

Hey, Don't knock it till you've tried it !!

[marcbarker]

Bravo...great one... a choice is all I wanted...no more no less....what does it matter in my own games wether I use the game to educate my kids or to have a beer and pretzels night at the keyboard...

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: barker

well lets just take it back to the real basics....the game from avalon hill Tactics....simple to play few pieces, few variants...there you go simulation at its best ....wait no tactics had the nuclear option...ohhhhhh goodness shal we include this...oh my...what a concept for a game...a board game.....how about another one SSI No Greater Glory! gave casulty reports in people killed wound and missing....oh no.......we can't have that....lol

I'm honestly beginning to believe you have trouble reading, understanding, or you have a terrible agenda that I cannot understand. [&:]

You've brought up Squad Leader by Avalon Hill. I loved playing it, until they made it Advanced Squad Leader.
You said you wanted to make the Campaign Series do what Squad Leader did. I pointed out that there is a John Tiller game called Squad Battles that mimics Squad leader almost perfectly and you bring up a fifty year old board game called Tactics? I did own Tactics II.
Or, mentioning a game that reports the deaths of units in the game? It does not support your argument, if your argument is with me?

I'm honestly shaking my head to think how to get through to someone who obviously does not want to "get it", when just about everyone else does.

Create your own strawman and your own view of the world. I will not be part of it.
I study history. I do not make it up as I go along.
I play the Campaign Series. I do not try to make it something it is not.

I've sized you up and found you wanting in a lot of categories.

[marcbarker]

I have been playing war games for approx 30 years. Squad Leader Like is what i meant to say. Small units in a dcg to move up in chain of command. I like what tjey did in 1.3 great mods. You know as well as I this game has been redefined over the years with various tweaks and mods. Who asked you to be part of it. All I asked is non combatants would be a unique twist that no other electronic war game has. I like these forums because you hear opinions from boths sides. a purist as in yourself and others that just wants to sit and play a game with their own tweaks. How many times have you tweaked the OOb's to give yourself an advantage? What additional units came in after a scenario was "modded"? Geesh all this over and interesting question, to mod or not to mod.... If it were not for the tweaks and ideas from people who sit and play this game it would not have evolved. It would have died with talonsoft. If MMP would not have picked up the torch Squad leader would have died. All I am saying is there is no bad idea nor bad tweak....it is up to the individual that plays the game their way and does not have to go through 10 levels of hell to get it to the way they like it.

[marcbarker]

You have not sized me up or even know who or what I am. For your information, I am a computer programmer, a minor in history as well as a major in engineering. I study WWII as a hobby. I was in the Army , I jumped and soared with the Eagles and All American. My cousin was in WWII in the Navy and was in the Pacific. He was on the New Orleans when the bow got blew off and he survived the war. A real good freind of mine whom I am pround to call a brother was in the 3rd Army during Patton's charge. I have seen things that you would cringe at and yet I play a silly war game. I do this modding and such because I enjoy it. So when you say you have sized me up....get a grip and look at that 8 ball and see yourself.

[tide1212]

Barker If you like noncombatant units try out DG-Viet Nam. Civilian units you kill them.... you loose points [;)]

[marcbarker]

DG Viet Nam, that a mod to divided ground. Great Game by the way.

[tide1212]

it is a mod to DG I'll get a link for you directly

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: barker

You have not sized me up or even know who or what I am. For your information, I am a computer programmer, a minor in history as well as a major in engineering. I study WWII as a hobby. I was in the Army , I jumped and soared with the Eagles and All American. My cousin was in WWII in the Navy and was in the Pacific. He was on the New Orleans when the bow got blew off and he survived the war. A real good freind of mine whom I am pround to call a brother was in the 3rd Army during Patton's charge. I have seen things that you would cringe at and yet I play a silly war game. I do this modding and such because I enjoy it. So when you say you have sized me up....get a grip and look at that 8 ball and see yourself.

Precisely! Bingo!
There is hope for you yet? [;)]

[marcbarker]

thanks for the link....by the way I have a few of the old scenarios for WF..the big D-Day one on all four beaches. I forgot who did it bust great maps. Could be updated with the 1.03 OOB with ships and etc. Would make a Hell of a battle.