odd

Gem35 · Post by **Gem35** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:49 pm

I am playing as Sweden in the 1792 campaign.
I am not at war with anyone at the moment.

I have made enforced peace treaties with Britain and Russia(Russia/Great Britain agrees to maintain peace with Sweden for 2 years)
just so I can conquer Denmark without the worry of them forming protectorates with said Countries.
Well to my disappointment after I invaded Denmark I got an ultimatum from Briatain to get out or else.

Is there a penalty for breaking treaties you sign with other nations?
I have seen Countries break alliances but would have hoped to not have an enforced peace agreement be swept by the wayside.[:(]

Joram · Post by **Joram** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:14 pm

Did you try ignoring the ultimatum?  Of course generally the AI doesn't make idle threats but just wondering if you are sure you would have gone to war.  If so, it sounds like a bug.

Hard Sarge · Post by **Hard Sarge** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:27 pm

I am not sure it is a bug, but, if they get asked to be a protectorate, they will then tell you to stop, and since it is there land, the treaty will stop you from going to war with the protectorate

if I read this right, they won't go to war with you, over that province, but you won't go to war with that province either, since it is now a English Protectorate

Gem35 · Post by **Gem35** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:05 pm

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I am not sure it is a bug, but, if they get asked to be a protectorate, they will then tell you to stop, and since it is there land, the treaty will stop you from going to war with the protectorate

if I read this right, they won't go to war with you, over that province, but you won't go to war with that province either, since it is now a English Protectorate

Nope, England issued the threat, I ignored it and now I am fighting for my life as Britain hurled her whole army at me and took my Capitol.
I am so glad diplomacy works in this game.[:'(]

Russian Guard · Post by **Russian Guard** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:52 pm

IMO, it does work in this case - actually it was you who attacked Britain, since they accepted Denmark as a protectorate which you then attacked. They didn't attack you first.

And they asked you not to attack their Protectorate [:D]

Gem35 · Post by **Gem35** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:21 am

ORIGINAL: Russian Guard

IMO, it does work in this case - actually it was you who attacked Britain, since they accepted Denmark as a protectorate which you then attacked. They didn't attack you first.

And they asked you not to attack their Protectorate [:D]

No I attacked Denmark, after the screen of "Sweden declares war on Denmark" I get the don't the " don't mess wit Texas" message from the redcoats. Who I had easily a year and a half remaining on our "enforced peace" treaty.
There was no protectorate until I attacked poor little Denmark.
Maybe I am too dim to understand the game mechanics. Sorry.

Joram · Post by **Joram** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:36 am

No not at all, I understand where you are coming from.  It's a tough one really, you attack a sovereign country who goes and runs to find a big brother who can protect them.  But you have an enforced peace with said country.  So what's the right response, that country, Britain, would not accept the protectorate or would your war perhaps just be null and void?  One of those two seems to be the right choice in my mind but I don't think you should have been able to go to war.
 

Russian Guard · Post by **Russian Guard** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:56 am

Although not ideal, I think the way it works now is effective in not letting players "dupe" non-player AI countries into treaties that prevent them from protecting their interests or acting on behalf of minor countries.

Ideally, I guess, Britain would have to be penalized in some way for agreeing to protect a minor country that fits these circumstances, but in reality powerful Nations often "interpret" deals they've made to suit their interests (especially back in Colonial/Imperial powers times) so England might well have offered some rationale for doing this irrespective of treaty signed.

Just my cpl of pennies worth.

morganbj · Post by **morganbj** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:43 pm

Besides, you can never trust those shopkeepers under any circumstances!
 

Russian Guard · Post by **Russian Guard** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:42 pm

Interesting - was playing late last night a bit, as Russia - had Nesselrode cause an insurrection in Bessarabia.

I immediately DoW'd Bessarabia. But instead of seeing the drum-rolled "we declared war on Bessarabia" while the turn was running, the turn ended without the declaration.

Sure enough - Bessarabia now had red stripes. England had taken Bessarabia as a protectorate.

Apparently there's a variable in timing on when, during a turn, these things happen? Or perhaps it went this way because I was allied to England?

In any event I didn't face the same problem you did. Curious.

Joram · Post by **Joram** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:12 pm

And to be honest I would think that would be the expected outcome, the DoW is aborted.  But it certainly doesn't appear consistent though there's no guarantee the two followed the same logic either.

Hard Sarge · Post by **Hard Sarge** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:05 pm

ORIGINAL: Gem35

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I am not sure it is a bug, but, if they get asked to be a protectorate, they will then tell you to stop, and since it is there land, the treaty will stop you from going to war with the protectorate

if I read this right, they won't go to war with you, over that province, but you won't go to war with that province either, since it is now a English Protectorate

Nope, England issued the threat, I ignored it and now I am fighting for my life as Britain hurled her whole army at me and took my Capitol.
I am so glad diplomacy works in this game.[:'(]

it does work, you broke the tready, when you didn't stop your attack

Gem35 · Post by **Gem35** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:13 pm

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

ORIGINAL: Gem35

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I am not sure it is a bug, but, if they get asked to be a protectorate, they will then tell you to stop, and since it is there land, the treaty will stop you from going to war with the protectorate

if I read this right, they won't go to war with you, over that province, but you won't go to war with that province either, since it is now a English Protectorate

Nope, England issued the threat, I ignored it and now I am fighting for my life as Britain hurled her whole army at me and took my Capitol.
I am so glad diplomacy works in this game.[:'(]

it does work, you broke the tready, when you didn't stop your attack

I could see if I invaded England that I broke the treaty, but Denmark was not affiliated with Britain until after I declared war the previous turn or should I say "in between" turns.
If this works as you say I either should not have been allowed to declare war on Denmark or there would have been a message stating if I declared war on Denmark that Britain would defend her and this would void the peace agreement.
No big deal, just odd.

Hard Sarge · Post by **Hard Sarge** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:19 pm

I disagree, when you DOW on them, they asked for protection, England stepped in and told you don't do it, or else, and you went ahead and did it, England did the or else

when you didn't break off the attack, you broke the tready by attacking England

sometimes you have to back down, or, if you think you are in a postion that they are not going to push, then you can try and push it, in this case, they didn't back down

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