Naval Evac

Jimmer · Post by **Jimmer** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:18 pm

Does anybody know for certain which of the two (below) options will be followed:

Situation:

France has a fleet in Amsterdam, blockaded by the British.
GB breaks into the port during her land movement, and successfully eradicates the garrison.
France, on her turn, attacks the British army (again in a siege combat).

The fleet is still in the port after the land movement. Does anybody know whether the game will still evacuate the fleet, as it should? I know the game is very flaky about deciding WHEN to evacuate, but, does that decision occur after all land movement? Or, does it happen at the point in time when the port is conquered (as it should)?

The reason I'm asking is because we won't know for sure until the naval phase of the next turn, and it's an important question.

Thanks.

MarshallEllis · Post by **MarshallEllis** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:23 pm

It should evac immediately after the conquering player's land phase (When the port is conquered). Are you seeing this?
 
 
 

gwheelock · Post by **gwheelock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:36 pm

Yep; we are.  In fact there was another player's  turn between
Britain's land phase & France's.  We were wondering if this was
some sort of intentional rule change (ie Britain must not only break
into a city - but must HOLD it thru the next naval turn).

Jimmer · Post by **Jimmer** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:58 am

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

It should evac immediately after the conquering player's land phase (When the port is conquered). Are you seeing this?

I'm seeing the scenario listed above. I know that in the past, evac could occur at almost any time.

Was a change made? I don't recall reading about that one.

MarshallEllis · Post by **MarshallEllis** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:09 am

Jimmer:
 
It looks like issue R210 was this issue and it was changed in 1.02g.
 
 

Jimmer · Post by **Jimmer** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:31 pm

I can't find that one documented anywhere. Can you reproduce the text of the error here?
 
We are running 1.02k, but the game started with 1.00 something.

delatbabel · Post by **delatbabel** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:40 am

I think this is a bug.  I'm not seeing naval evac happening immediately, and I'm trying in both 1.02k and 1.03 DEV.  I'll try to recreate a save game.

delatbabel · Post by **delatbabel** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:46 am

Done.  Bug ID 175, headed your way Marshall.

Jimmer · Post by **Jimmer** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:20 am

Thanks. At least now I know that if I send the next two years worth of British builds after that fleet again, at least it will DIE this time.

gwheelock · Post by **gwheelock** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:38 pm

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

Thanks. At least now I know that if I send the next two years worth of British builds after that fleet again, at least it will DIE this time.

Oh don't be so bitter - you only lost 16 (19 if you count the stuff near Prussia) &
half of those were Swedes. Thats 2 QUARTERS not 2 years. (Besides - you're
better off withtout all those Swedes anyway - they just drag down your morale

)

Jimmer · Post by **Jimmer** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:52 am

ORIGINAL: gwheelock
Oh don't be so bitter - you only lost 16 (19 if you count the stuff near Prussia) &
half of those were Swedes. Thats 2 QUARTERS not 2 years. (Besides - you're
better off withtout all those Swedes anyway - they just drag down your morale )

[:'(]

Actually, you are quite correct. I lost 6 British and 12 Swedish in Amsterdam (counting the ones lost to the Holland boys).

MarshallEllis · Post by **MarshallEllis** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:39 am

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

I think this is a bug. I'm not seeing naval evac happening immediately, and I'm trying in both 1.02k and 1.03 DEV. I'll try to recreate a save game.

Del:

It should be happening at the end of the port conqering MPs land/land combat phase???
Are you not seeing this?

Jimmer · Post by **Jimmer** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:06 pm

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
Del:

It should be happening at the end of the port conqering MPs land/land combat phase???
Are you not seeing this?

One possibility: This bug may only be happening in PBEM games. It is possible it is fixed in AI games (I haven't tried that yet -- but I will tonight).

MarshallEllis · Post by **MarshallEllis** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:07 pm

Let me know and thanks Jimmer!
 

delatbabel · Post by **delatbabel** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:27 am

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

I think this is a bug. I'm not seeing naval evac happening immediately, and I'm trying in both 1.02k and 1.03 DEV. I'll try to recreate a save game.

Del:

It should be happening at the end of the port conqering MPs land/land combat phase???
Are you not seeing this?

No, I'm not seeing that, and I did try it in a game vs the AI.

It appears to be happening at the end of the land phase of the MP who originally owned the port. So: Britain moves first, France moves second, in the British land phase they capture the city but the fleets don't evict, in the French land phase the French can recapture the city and save the fleets, but if the French don't recapture the city then the fleets evict at the end of the French land phase.

gwheelock · Post by **gwheelock** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:21 am

This actually sounds like a fair deal.  You not only have to capture the city; but hold it for
a significant time.
 
 
What happens if the French had moved first?  Does it wait until their next turn?

delatbabel · Post by **delatbabel** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:28 am

ORIGINAL: gwheelock
This actually sounds like a fair deal. You not only have to capture the city; but hold it for
a significant time.

Well it's not as per the EiA rules (or the rules as per the EiANW book). As soon as the port becomes enemy controlled, the French ships must leave.

This can cover a number of cases, btw. For example, in a PBEM game I'm playing (EiA not EiANW), France declared war on Spain while there were French fleets in a Spanish port, blockaded by Nelson and 60 of his finest. The evac in that case happens in the diplomacy phase, so the ships evac into the blockade (or scuttle, which they did in this case to prevent the British getting extra PPs for the naval win). There is no concept of the Spanish having to hold their own port for any length of time -- they'd held it for some time before that, just that the French ships weren't enemies until the DoW came.

I haven't tested the case of what happens in the save game I posted if the French had moved first. I suspect that the evac would happen at the end of all movement, though.

MarshallEllis · Post by **MarshallEllis** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:24 am

Del:
 
I'm going to play around with this to see if I can determine when the evac happens in all cases.
 
 

Jimmer · Post by **Jimmer** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:59 pm

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

This actually sounds like a fair deal. You not only have to capture the city; but hold it for
a significant time.

What happens if the French had moved first? Does it wait until their next turn?

It doesn't sound fair to me. The rules are explicit: When you take the port, the fleets need to evac. Holding the port is not a requirement. It never was in EiA, either.

By the way, Marshall, while you are checking that code, look for the time that a formerly blockading fleet moves into the port. I think it is happening some time before reinforcement. However, it should NOT happen until the naval phase of the player owning the ships. Both of these may have been programming choices, but they change the port combat rules quite a bit.

MarshallEllis · Post by **MarshallEllis** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:04 pm

Jimmer:
 
I hope to add this into 1.03
 
 

Naval Evac

Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac

RE: Naval Evac