B17s and You: No Naval?

[TheOx]

My B17s don't seem to want to attack a big Jap TF near Rabaul despite their being in range. They are set to Naval Attack and 0% patrol. What am I doing wrong here? They are at the edge of the black line.

[Gem35]

ORIGINAL: TheOx

My B17s don't seem to want to attack a big Jap TF near Rabaul despite their being in range. They are set to Naval Attack and 0% patrol. What am I doing wrong here? They are at the edge of the black line.

Plenty,

Detection level?
What is their morale?
What have you set it's maximum range to?
Poor weather?
Is there enough AV support?
Supplies good?
Fatigue level?

[TheOx]

 
1)Don't know detection. I mean, the enemy TF has been spotted is that what you mean?
2) good
3) 13
4)multiple turn no go, dont think weather
5)yes
6)yes
7)low (under 20)
 
Also, some hints of B-25s and B-26s vs ships would be appreciated. I'm taking losses at 5k feet with no results. Suggestions?

[Terminus]

What's in the Jap TF? Is it within range of Jap bases with fighters? Are there enemy carriers about? Where are your escort fighters?

Land-based bombers will refuse to fly if they think they'll be flying unescorted against a potential enemy fighter threat.

[ltfightr]

As for your B25 and B26's what is the unit experience.  Most US units need a little trainning before you start seeing hits. Terminus most likle got it right when he stated the B-17 think they will get slaughtered and so the local comander thinks the return on investment is not right for the attack.  The Moral of the unit has a lot to do with if they fly or not also.

[FeurerKrieg]

You might also bump their nav search to 10%, one plane from the squad spotting the TF seems to more likely to trigger the rest of the group to attack.

[wild_Willie2]

Don't be fooled by the range markers of your AC, they are an indication and not very reliable.
Count the hexes to your target, you will see that your Ac could simply be not in range or your AF is to small to fly your B17's at extended range (level 5 for them to fly at max..)

[morganbj]

When conditions are right (all those things Gem35 listed), they'll attack, and sometimes with devastating consequences, especially againt AKs, APs, MSWs, and even DDs.  The can also do a great deal of damage against other ship types, too, but the results seem to be much more tenable.
 
Realize though, that the game models reality in some interesting ways, and sometimes even when everything is perfect for an attack, the unit just stays home and swats mosquitos instead.
 
My experience is that as time goes on, and the availability of escorts to help out to a decent range begin to appear, the bombers fly.  In my current game, the KB wandered into a 4E trap and simply disappeared over a four or five day period.  All six carriers, five by 4E, one by a land-based Avenger squadron, are on the bottom.  My guess is that a lot of the aircrews went with them, but I'll never know for sure.  And this was during July '42.  (I'd start a new game, but I'm waiting for AE.)
 
So, be patient, make sure you produce the good attack conditions as much as you can, and eventually it will work.

[hawker]

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

When conditions are right (all those things Gem35 listed), they'll attack, and sometimes with devastating consequences, especially againt AKs, APs, MSWs, and even DDs.  The can also do a great deal of damage against other ship types, too, but the results seem to be much more tenable.

Realize though, that the game models reality in some interesting ways, and sometimes even when everything is perfect for an attack, the unit just stays home and swats mosquitos instead.

My experience is that as time goes on, and the availability of escorts to help out to a decent range begin to appear, the bombers fly.  In my current game, the KB wandered into a 4E trap and simply disappeared over a four or five day period.  All six carriers, five by 4E, one by a land-based Avenger squadron, are on the bottom.  My guess is that a lot of the aircrews went with them, but I'll never know for sure.  And this was during July '42.  (I'd start a new game, but I'm waiting for AE.)

So, be patient, make sure you produce the good attack conditions as much as you can, and eventually it will work.

Bingo,4E historically fly zillion missions against ships[8|]

[VSWG]

ORIGINAL: hawker

Bingo,4E historically fly zillion missions against ships[8|]

4Es flew naval attack missions more often than Nells/Betties carried torpedoes. [:)]

*runs

[hawker]

ORIGINAL: VSWG

ORIGINAL: hawker

Bingo,4E historically fly zillion missions against ships[8|]

4Es flew naval attack missions more often than Nells/Betties carried torpedoes. [:)]

*runs

Agree, IRL 300-400 4E flew every day and massacre everything since 1942[;)]

Must say,historically correct[8|]

P.S. You are right about Betty,they are same menace just like 4E[8|]

[VSWG]

ORIGINAL: hawker

ORIGINAL: VSWG

ORIGINAL: hawker

Bingo,4E historically fly zillion missions against ships[8|]

4Es flew naval attack missions more often than Nells/Betties carried torpedoes. [:)]

*runs

Agree, IRL 300-400 4E flew every day and massacre everything since 1942[;)]

Must say,historically correct[8|]

You're missing my point.

P.S. You are right about Betty,they are same menace just like 4E[8|]

Yup. Both are equally overrated.

[Nikademus]

when you set bomber groups to 0% search, you increase the chance they won't attack as range increases.

[engineer]

Ditto the experience comment.  You might try setting the altitude on your bombers higher.  It will decrease the effectiveness of flak and give your inexperienced flyers a greater confidence they'll come home.  Over time, the pilots get experience and you can execute more aggressive, lower altitude strikes. 
 
The game engine combines experience, fatigue, and morale to determine if the mission will fly and how aggressively a squadron will press home an attack.
 
This doesn't even begin to get into 1000 lb and 2000 lb load-outs and you'll need those to do more than superficial damage of cruisers and up. 

[morganbj]

ORIGINAL: hawker

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

When conditions are right (all those things Gem35 listed), they'll attack, and sometimes with devastating consequences, especially againt AKs, APs, MSWs, and even DDs.  The can also do a great deal of damage against other ship types, too, but the results seem to be much more tenable.

Realize though, that the game models reality in some interesting ways, and sometimes even when everything is perfect for an attack, the unit just stays home and swats mosquitos instead.

My experience is that as time goes on, and the availability of escorts to help out to a decent range begin to appear, the bombers fly.  In my current game, the KB wandered into a 4E trap and simply disappeared over a four or five day period.  All six carriers, five by 4E, one by a land-based Avenger squadron, are on the bottom.  My guess is that a lot of the aircrews went with them, but I'll never know for sure.  And this was during July '42.  (I'd start a new game, but I'm waiting for AE.)

So, be patient, make sure you produce the good attack conditions as much as you can, and eventually it will work.

Bingo,4E historically fly zillion missions against ships[8|]

Gee, I never said it was historical. I said that's what the game does. The only thing I said was real was the fact that some planes don't fly when you want them to.

[niceguy2005]

I just scanned the thread and don't know if anyone mentioned it.  Air HQs help greatly.  I find all types of missions are flown with greater frequency with an Air HQ around.

[BShaftoe]

Leader aggresivity is also a factor, isn't it?. What I find surprising is that AV support is a factor in the number of planes flying. This is, according to Skripta, it only has an influence on the speed of repairs on land, and obviously, this will influence the number of planes flying the following day, but... has it a DIRECT influence on the number of planes flying in any given mission?

[wild_Willie2]

ORIGINAL: BShaftoe

Leader aggresivity is also a factor, isn't it?. What I find surprising is that AV support is a factor in the number of planes flying. This is, according to Skripta, it only has an influence on the speed of repairs on land, and obviously, this will influence the number of planes flying the following day, but... has it a DIRECT influence on the number of planes flying in any given mission?

No, as you already mentioned, it only has an influence on the repair speed.

[Dive Bomber1]

ORIGINAL: TheOx

My B17s don't seem to want to attack a big Jap TF near Rabaul despite their being in range. They are set to Naval Attack and 0% patrol. What am I doing wrong here? They are at the edge of the black line.

The answer to your problem is:

Experience
Experience
Experience

- Place your bombers in a fairly large air base - level 4 minimum
- Set your bombers to attack "soft" targets such as empty enemy bases that have air fields or ports and are relatively close by - and where it is difficult or impossible for the enemy to set LR CAP for defense.
- If there is an air field, set to "Air Field Attack". If there is a port, set to "Port Attack"
- Attack every turn where the weather is decent (don't fly during or into thunderstorms)

With patience, you will end up with air crews that have experience levels in the 70s and low 80s. They will then attack more often, go after most any targets, and give devestating results. They will also attack without Escorts, and will attack further into their extended range.

Good luck -

DB