Scrap Lists - Default

[Shannon V. OKeets]

5th and last in series. Scrap list for USA in Guadalcanal scenario.

All of these lists were generated by Michael 'Baldur' - Thanks![&o]

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

2nd in series. Scrap list for Germany in Barbarossa scenario.

I would scap alot more units to get better units on the map since production will have limited impact on the game.

I would scrap:
FTR2 - all 6.
LND2 - 2x Hs123
LND3 - all 8.
ATR3 - both (all)
Inf - 4-4 inf (If playing with unlimited div I would also scrap 2x 5-3 since I would break down at least one corp into divs before start)
Mot - all (4) (I wouldn't build any Mot anyway)
Mech - all (2) (No builds of these either.)
Arm - 7-6 (I sure aint building Arm for a 5 turn game.)
Art - both (2) (There are other art I rather have)
Mtn - 5-4
Para - 4-3
Trs - all (5)
Sub - all (9)

Since I can scrap more units later I scrap none of the types that hasn't at least one unit in the setup.

-Orm

[michaelbaldur]

thank for you imput ...

I try to take the middle ground ... some people want to scrap alot and some people not at all ...

I going to take a look at it again ...

pps ..I don´t know what game version you are looking at .... but ..

there are only 5 ftr2 ...all scrapped
there are only 6 lnd3 ...all scrapped
there are only 1 art ....
there are no para that can be scrapped

but I will scrap the subs and one more arm ... 2 more inf .. the art ... the 2 atr3

but not the .. mot and mec and mtn ... they are as good as the ones you can build and there is not many land units left in the force pool ...

ppps i´m change Russia according to the same priorities


pppps about the para ... something is wrong ... it is a 1938 unit in 1941 ... if I understand the rule.. it have to be scrapable ... I will put steve on that ...

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

thank for you imput ...

I try to take the middle ground ... some people want to scrap alot and some people not at all ...

I going to take a look at it again ...

pps ..I don´t know what game version you are looking at .... but ..

there are only 5 ftr2 ...all scrapped
there are only 6 lnd3 ...all scrapped
there are only 1 art ....
there are no para that can be scrapped

but I will scrap the subs and one more arm ... 2 more inf .. the art ... the 2 atr3

but not the .. mot and mec and mtn ... they are as good as the ones you can build and there is not many land units left in the force pool ...

ppps i´m change Russia according to the same priorities

FTR2: Is there not following fighters?
1934: He-51
1935: He-51
1937: Me-109b + Me-109c
1938: Me-109e1 + He-112

And is there not a 1938 4-3 para?

And so on...

As I see it Germany can scrap units 3 years back since they are not neutral at the start of the scenario.

-Orm

[Shannon V. OKeets]

You have found a bug in the Barbarossa scenario. I fixed it this morning. See below.

[sajbalk]

It is my interpretation of the rules that the CW lend lease planes (green stripe) do not even enter the force pool unless the corresponding US planes are placed into the LL pool. As such, the CW and the US can never scrap identical planes. If the US scraps, it is never a buildable CW unit, and the CW cannot scrap unless the US has placed it into the LL pool.

For the Guadalcanal scenario, this would include the Buffalo, etc.

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

thank for you imput ...

I try to take the middle ground ... some people want to scrap alot and some people not at all ...

I going to take a look at it again ...

pps ..I don´t know what game version you are looking at .... but ..

there are only 5 ftr2 ...all scrapped
there are only 6 lnd3 ...all scrapped
there are only 1 art ....
there are no para that can be scrapped

but I will scrap the subs and one more arm ... 2 more inf .. the art ... the 2 atr3

but not the .. mot and mec and mtn ... they are as good as the ones you can build and there is not many land units left in the force pool ...

ppps i´m change Russia according to the same priorities

FTR2: Is there not following fighters?
1934: He-51
1935: He-51
1937: Me-109b + Me-109c
1938: Me-109e1 + He-112

And is there not a 1938 4-3 para?

And so on...

As I see it Germany can scrap units 3 years back since they are not neutral at the start of the scenario.

-Orm

it is bug...the German scrap list is set to neutral major power ... so there is allot of units missing ...

the right ftr2 list is
1934 he51
1935 ar68 he51
1937 bf109b bf109c
1938 he112 bf109e1

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

It is my interpretation of the rules that the CW lend lease planes (green stripe) do not even enter the force pool unless the corresponding US planes are placed into the LL pool. As such, the CW and the US can never scrap identical planes. If the US scraps, it is never a buildable CW unit, and the CW cannot scrap unless the US has placed it into the LL pool.

For the Guadalcanal scenario, this would include the Buffalo, etc.

Yes. That is how it works in MWIF.

However, there is no need to scrap lend lease planes (those with a stripe). Just don't request them from the source country.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here are Michael's lists for Fascist Tide. This is basically half of the Global War scenario.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

It is my interpretation of the rules that the CW lend lease planes (green stripe) do not even enter the force pool unless the corresponding US planes are placed into the LL pool. As such, the CW and the US can never scrap identical planes. If the US scraps, it is never a buildable CW unit, and the CW cannot scrap unless the US has placed it into the LL pool.

For the Guadalcanal scenario, this would include the Buffalo, etc.

Right.
If the US scrap the F2A Buffalo, the CW don't have it (and can't scrap it), it is in the lend lease pool.
As Lend Lease is the first step in the game (MWiF), so if the US did not lend lease it to the CW, it is still in the lend lease pool and can't be scrapped by the CW.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

My two cents as a player about the proposed scrap lists for Fascist Tide is that I never scrap ATRs. They are just too valuable and might be needed in the future.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here are Michael's lists for Fascist Tide. This is basically half of the Global War scenario.

Russians : I would never scrap that much land units.
Only the GARR 2-1, the MOT 3-5.

CW : Too much CVP are scrapped. The CW is in dire need of low class CVP for most of the game. Difficult to say when you don't see what is left.
I'd never scrap the Vildebeest either.
I would scrap more SUBs.

France : I'd not scrap the ATR.

USA : I'd not scrap the INF 4-3, and I'd scrap more SUBs.

Italy : I'd keep the SM.81 because of its ATR capacity.

Germany : I'd scrap no ATR, no land units at all.
I'd scrap more SUBs.

[michaelbaldur]

I´m starting to see that this will be hard  ... every one have their own ideas about what units to scrap .......

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

I´m starting to see that this will be hard  ... every one have their own ideas about what units to scrap .......

It is likely that the most difficult to reach consensus on will be Global War. Fascist Tide is just part of that.

I suggest building a spreadsheet with all the scrappable units in the first column, and then create a new column for each person who gives you his suggested list. That will give you an overview of all the suggestions, where they agree and where they disagree. I have no problem with maybe having 2 or 3 suggested scrap lists included with the release version of the game, with one as the 'Default'.

And remember we do not have to satisfy everyone here. Players can always create their own personal scrap lists.

The goal is to have a 'good' default list for the newcomers to WIF so they do not have to worry about making these decisions, and yet do not suffer later in the game from having a 'bad' default list.

[michaelbaldur]

but .... what is a good scrap list .... I think that it is the middle way .... only remove few and the most out off class units ....

but it is the most important think to find out ... what kind of scrap list do I make ...



just to be clear ..I don´t scrap any scs/cv ...

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur
just to be clear ..I don´t scrap any scs/cv ...

I think you could scrap those that have a sunk date prior to the scenario.

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur
just to be clear ..I don´t scrap any scs/cv ...

I think you could scrap those that have a sunk date prior to the scenario.

I disagree.. but it just my 2 cents

[Taxman66]

Here is a simple rule about CVPs.  If it has a cost of 0 (zero) don't scrap it.  It can be used to keep up gearing limits, if nothing else.
 
Personally I rarely if ever scrap USSR or GE ground units.  I can always find some sort of use for them.  Crummy GE units can used for partisan duty and later in the war to establish secondary lines to help avoid the paradrop/double turn nightmares.  For USSR a couple of 'blah' GAR units in a swamp, city or other defensible choke point (while obviously in dead man walking status) may cause GE to loose an impulse or part of an impulse of full movement.

[michaelbaldur]

good point ...I´m starting to think that you only should scrap air units and trans/amph and subs ....

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I want to have default scrap lists for every major power for aeach scenario - about 70 total.

Here is Michael's suggestion for Guadalcanal for the Commonwealth:

Warspite1

My view on the scrap CW scrap list in Guadalcanal is this:

The CW have three Orange (2 capacity) Carriers. There are a range of carrier planes from Light Blue (1) to Dark Blue (4) available. However the carriers can only carry Light Blue and Orange planes. On the basis that the carriers need planes I would suggest scrapping no Light Blue aircraft at the start in order to increase the odds of a Light Blue/Orange plane making it to the start line. Unfortunately the CE cannot scrap Green (3 +) carrier planes so this plan is not full proof. However on an odds basis it seems the best way to try an ensure carriers have planes otherwise there is a good chance that one or more carriers will be redundant during the game - this has happened on numerous set-ups I have tried.

The other possibility is to scrap only the very worst of the Light Blue - Osprey and maybe Nimrod - but not all