map mods - the Pacific
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map mods - the Pacific
Curious.
Anyone have any thoughts on making a new map of the Pacific?
I don't like the current map. The square layout (instead of hexagonal) means that Australia is disproportionately far away from the USA. I think this has a huge impact on game play, because the USA has a harder time reinforcing Australia than it should.
Personally, I'd like to see a map with consistent rectangular sea regions, offset 50% in each row in order to get an effective hex layout. I'd prefer to see this for all the oceans in the world, but especially the Pacific.
I have absolutely no intention of doing this. It is a large project. But out of curiousity, does anyone else have an interest?
Anyone have any thoughts on making a new map of the Pacific?
I don't like the current map. The square layout (instead of hexagonal) means that Australia is disproportionately far away from the USA. I think this has a huge impact on game play, because the USA has a harder time reinforcing Australia than it should.
Personally, I'd like to see a map with consistent rectangular sea regions, offset 50% in each row in order to get an effective hex layout. I'd prefer to see this for all the oceans in the world, but especially the Pacific.
I have absolutely no intention of doing this. It is a large project. But out of curiousity, does anyone else have an interest?
RE: map mods - the Pacific
Take it from me -- Australia IS far from the US (and most other places). Down under, we refer to it as the tyranny of distance....
I am not entirely clear on the proper terminology, but shouldn't the rectangles vary in size according to how close one is to the equator? I think this has something to do with the mercator projection and lines of longitude (e.g., making a rectangle out of a sphere). I don't have the game in front of my right now, but did it attempt to model this? I never really paid attention.
If someone is willing to look at this issue, it should also be noted that the world map is upside down.....[;)]
I am not entirely clear on the proper terminology, but shouldn't the rectangles vary in size according to how close one is to the equator? I think this has something to do with the mercator projection and lines of longitude (e.g., making a rectangle out of a sphere). I don't have the game in front of my right now, but did it attempt to model this? I never really paid attention.
If someone is willing to look at this issue, it should also be noted that the world map is upside down.....[;)]
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RE: map mods - the Pacific
ORIGINAL: Lucky1
Take it from me -- Australia IS far from the US (and most other places).
It's far. But measure the distance from the USA to Austrailia, and USA to Japan, with a string on a globe and compare it to what you get in AWD. It is out of proportion.
- Bo Rearguard
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RE: map mods - the Pacific
Well...as a starting point for discussion here is the current map of the Pacific in the game. Bold white lines represent two movement point borders. Dashed lines represent one point.

Here's one possible revision with the sea areas off set in a brick like pattern as suggested.

This would definitely be a huge undertaking. From what I've seen on the art files, to get the best results you'd basically have to recreate the basic map art map whole and then slice it into all these new areas the game uses so each is it's own separate art file in addition to changing all the data files.[X(]

Here's one possible revision with the sea areas off set in a brick like pattern as suggested.

This would definitely be a huge undertaking. From what I've seen on the art files, to get the best results you'd basically have to recreate the basic map art map whole and then slice it into all these new areas the game uses so each is it's own separate art file in addition to changing all the data files.[X(]
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864
RE: map mods - the Pacific
I dunno - the current configuration actually seems to match the k.m. distance. It is approx 12000 km betwen Sydney and San Diego. It is 11400 km between Brisbane and San Diego.
Conversely, it is approximately 8250 km from San Diego to Tokyo. Or, it is 7700 km from Seattle to Tokyo.
It takes 8 (double) seazones from USA to reach Queensland. It takes 9 double zones to reach New South Wales.
To reach Japan it takes a minimum of 6 double seazones, or 7 if one jogs down via hawaii.
6/8 or 7/9 seem to roughly match the distance ratios of the most commonly travelled routes .... Any thoughts?
Could one make the seazone between NSW and Queensland a single?
Conversely, it is approximately 8250 km from San Diego to Tokyo. Or, it is 7700 km from Seattle to Tokyo.
It takes 8 (double) seazones from USA to reach Queensland. It takes 9 double zones to reach New South Wales.
To reach Japan it takes a minimum of 6 double seazones, or 7 if one jogs down via hawaii.
6/8 or 7/9 seem to roughly match the distance ratios of the most commonly travelled routes .... Any thoughts?
Could one make the seazone between NSW and Queensland a single?
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RE: map mods - the Pacific
Bo Rearguard, that's about what I had in mind. Indeed, it is a huge undertaking
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Looks pretty good to me, but I would add at least another border between New Caledonia and Australia. Sidney shouldn't be closer than Brisbane.
We ought to start with the numbers, as Lucky1 indicates. I got distances from here.
I'd also get rid of the weird 5 radial star action (from AWD) by Papua/Solomons etc.

Looks pretty good to me, but I would add at least another border between New Caledonia and Australia. Sidney shouldn't be closer than Brisbane.
We ought to start with the numbers, as Lucky1 indicates. I got distances from here.
Code: Select all
km ratio(km) #SZ SZ ratio SZ target for realism
Tokyo 9016 1.000 6 1.000 6.000 (leave this unchanged)
Taipei 11113 1.233 8 1.333 7.398 -> 7
Manila 11922 1.322 7 1.167 7.932 ->8
Pt Moresby 11113 1.233 7 1.167 7.398 ->7 (I counted seazones to the north side)
Brisbane 11600 1.227 9 1.500 7.362 ->7
Sydney 12093 1.341 9 1.500 8.046 ->8
- Bo Rearguard
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RE: map mods - the Pacific
ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
Bo Rearguard, that's about what I had in mind. Indeed, it is a huge undertaking.
Looks pretty good to me, but I would add at least another border between New Caledonia and Australia. Sidney shouldn't be closer than Brisbane.
We ought to start with the numbers, as Lucky1 indicates. I got distances from here.
I'd also get rid of the weird 5 radial star action (from AWD) by Papua/Solomons etc.
Here's one other possibility for that area. I got rid of that odd diamond shaped area off the tip of Papua. I was thinking there should be a one point border somewhere in the Coral Sea to make moving from Sydney to Darwin a little harder.

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864
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RE: map mods - the Pacific
Yeah, better. I like getting rid of the odd diamond as well as the 5 radii corner.
One thing to be aware of is the limitations of the way the engine does 1MP borders versus 2MP. You cannot do arbitrary stuff, because it is controlled by a *region* parameter not a *border* parameter.
The way it works is that every region is classified as 1MP or 2MP. The border is made 2MP only if *both* connecting regions are 2MP. Hence, the 1MP border you have in the sea zone off of Queensland could not be done quite like that. To accomplish 1MP there you would have to make one or the other sea zone 1MP, which would cause other borders to become 1MP.
If this were done, the approprite sea zone to make 1MP would be the northern one, I think. It would be nice to have the northern borders of Queensland be 1MP anyway (Queensland to Port Moresby shouldn't really be a 3 MP air move, 2MP would be better).
The Carline Isl --> Gilbert Isl direct route is bit out of place. I'd move that Solomon/Gilbert border over so that the Caroline --> Gilbert is not direct. Maybe even leave that as a 4 radii corner (better than the 5 radii one we already have).
One thing to be aware of is the limitations of the way the engine does 1MP borders versus 2MP. You cannot do arbitrary stuff, because it is controlled by a *region* parameter not a *border* parameter.
The way it works is that every region is classified as 1MP or 2MP. The border is made 2MP only if *both* connecting regions are 2MP. Hence, the 1MP border you have in the sea zone off of Queensland could not be done quite like that. To accomplish 1MP there you would have to make one or the other sea zone 1MP, which would cause other borders to become 1MP.
If this were done, the approprite sea zone to make 1MP would be the northern one, I think. It would be nice to have the northern borders of Queensland be 1MP anyway (Queensland to Port Moresby shouldn't really be a 3 MP air move, 2MP would be better).
The Carline Isl --> Gilbert Isl direct route is bit out of place. I'd move that Solomon/Gilbert border over so that the Caroline --> Gilbert is not direct. Maybe even leave that as a 4 radii corner (better than the 5 radii one we already have).
- Bo Rearguard
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RE: map mods - the Pacific
ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
Yeah, better. I like getting rid of the odd diamond as well as the 5 radii corner.
One thing to be aware of is the limitations of the way the engine does 1MP borders versus 2MP. You cannot do arbitrary stuff, because it is controlled by a *region* parameter not a *border* parameter.
The way it works is that every region is classified as 1MP or 2MP. The border is made 2MP only if *both* connecting regions are 2MP. Hence, the 1MP border you have in the sea zone off of Queensland could not be done quite like that. To accomplish 1MP there you would have to make one or the other sea zone 1MP, which would cause other borders to become 1MP.
If this were done, the approprite sea zone to make 1MP would be the northern one, I think. It would be nice to have the northern borders of Queensland be 1MP anyway (Queensland to Port Moresby shouldn't really be a 3 MP air move, 2MP would be better).
The Carline Isl --> Gilbert Isl direct route is bit out of place. I'd move that Solomon/Gilbert border over so that the Caroline --> Gilbert is not direct. Maybe even leave that as a 4 radii corner (better than the 5 radii one we already have).
Okay...I see what you mean. No isolated 1 MP areas. There would have to be a 1 MP border in the Torres Straits between Queensland, Oz and Papua.

Now, if only I had a year off in my life to put it all together. [:D] It's fun and easy to alter screen shots, but the real thing is a lot more frustrating. If such a thing were to be done it'd make sense to gather every aspect people don't like about the current map at once. Like I mentioned, one would pretty much have to re-create the underlying base art to make sure it all fits together properly at the end. In the dat/art folder it resembles a disassembled puzzle with it's pieces (areas) each having it's separate file. I'm not sure where I'd even start.
Any graphic geniuses out there? [;)]
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864
RE: map mods - the Pacific
I would mention that from one of Bo's prior screenshots that it is only 6 double seazones from the US to Sydney. This is the same as for Japan. It should not be so close in my mind. But, in that second screenshot, one could consider putting a double zone between Vanuatu and Fiji (I am assuming that those are the islands east of New Caledonia - dont have the game on this comp). The changes by PNG / N Queensland look reasonable. Sorry I am so useless with programming, as otherwise I would consider helping...... Interesting to consider the possibilities.
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RE: map mods - the Pacific
I think a couple of principles would be nice to apply, were one to do this (which doesn't seem likely).
1a) shortest route would be SWUSA->Queensland (presumably 7 sea zones)
1b) the shortest route would be interrupted by Japanese air based at the Solomon Islands.
2a) SWUSA->New South Wales would be a 1 longer distance (8 sea zones)
2b) this route would be interrupted by Japanese CAGs at sea by Solomon Islands, or Japanese air based in New Caledonia.
Hence, providing some appropriate strategic value to the Solomons.
1a) shortest route would be SWUSA->Queensland (presumably 7 sea zones)
1b) the shortest route would be interrupted by Japanese air based at the Solomon Islands.
2a) SWUSA->New South Wales would be a 1 longer distance (8 sea zones)
2b) this route would be interrupted by Japanese CAGs at sea by Solomon Islands, or Japanese air based in New Caledonia.
Hence, providing some appropriate strategic value to the Solomons.