What about 1.04

[NeverMan]

Maybe Matrix should include all source code when you buy this game? LOL. Seriously though, that would TOO SWEET!!!

[MarshallEllis]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Maybe Matrix should include all source code when you buy this game? LOL. Seriously though, that would TOO SWEET!!!

Version control is tough enough already. Chaos would ensue along with Dogs and Cats living together, etc. bla bla...

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Maybe Matrix should include all source code when you buy this game? LOL. Seriously though, that would TOO SWEET!!!

Version control is tough enough already. Chaos would ensue along with Dogs and Cats living together, etc. bla bla...

yeah, but if you provided the source then each group could have their own variation along with the original, so they could modify everything themselves: could add Internet play, scenarios, change anything and everything they wanted to........

of course, I understand from a business viewpoint why this is bad.

[delatbabel]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
of course, I understand from a business viewpoint why this is bad.

Do you? Some of the world's largest and most successful companies run using an open source model.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
of course, I understand from a business viewpoint why this is bad.

Do you? Some of the world's largest and most successful companies run using an open source model.

Yes, I do. Oh, you must mean MS......er, wait... no. No, you mean Apple, er, wait, no.

Yes, I understand there are successful OpenSource projects/businesses. There are many in fact, and for every one of them there are twice or more successful projects/businesses that aren't OpenSource.

If Matrix was to release this thing with Source Code, I doubt there would be much of a need for Matrix when it came to this game. The community would no doubt get most of the bugs fixed shortly thereafter, mods would be seen everywhere and the game would probably have both Internet play and classic EiA. Why would we need Matrix?

[MarshallEllis]

Without Matrix there would be no source code. The origin of life for this project was Matrix Games! That's why we need Matrix Games.
 
Linux needed Torvalis(sp?) EiANW needed Matrix Games.
 
 

[NeverMan]

Marshall,

I don't get your point. I think that if you released the source code at it's current state, there would be no more need to MatrixGames.

[Jimmer]

I suppose that's why RedHat is in business? After all, Linux is open source, so there should be no need for RedHat, right?
 
The open source model will not work for games (as a business model).
 
Some form of MODIFIED open-source might: Matrix retains control of the code (ALL of the code), but customers can submit fixes. But, I doubt it: There are too many idiots in the gaming community for even that to work. (Idiot, in this context, means people who think they know what they are doing, but do not.)
 
Furthermore, game players are well known as the computer industry's bane: There are more pirated copies of games in existence than any other kind of software. Trusting the typical gamer with source code would be completely foolish on Matrix' part. The source code would get posted, and then bootleg copies of the game would show up. Within hours, I suspect.
 
The only way it would work is if all of the software was watermarked with the specific owner, so that owner could be sued when illegal copies showed up on the 'Net. However, such lawsuits would be fatal to Matrix (or, at least this game) if they became required to control the code.

[eske]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Without Matrix there would be no source code. The origin of life for this project was Matrix Games! That's why we need Matrix Games.

Linux needed Torvalis(sp?) EiANW needed Matrix Games.

It is Linus Torvalds. From Finland.

Wikipedia

/eske

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

I suppose that's why RedHat is in business? After all, Linux is open source, so there should be no need for RedHat, right?

The open source model will not work for games (as a business model).

Some form of MODIFIED open-source might: Matrix retains control of the code (ALL of the code), but customers can submit fixes. But, I doubt it: There are too many idiots in the gaming community for even that to work. (Idiot, in this context, means people who think they know what they are doing, but do not.)

Furthermore, game players are well known as the computer industry's bane: There are more pirated copies of games in existence than any other kind of software. Trusting the typical gamer with source code would be completely foolish on Matrix' part. The source code would get posted, and then bootleg copies of the game would show up. Within hours, I suspect.

The only way it would work is if all of the software was watermarked with the specific owner, so that owner could be sued when illegal copies showed up on the 'Net. However, such lawsuits would be fatal to Matrix (or, at least this game) if they became required to control the code.

You answered your own question. You sarcastically pointed out that RedHat linux is OpenSource and is still in business and then went on to point out that OpenSource won't work for games (which was the EXACT point I was making).

Thanks.

[MarshallEllis]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Marshall,

I don't get your point. I think that if you released the source code at it's current state, there would be no more need to MatrixGames.

Wooops! OK then nevermind...

[gazfun]

Editor would be good to make one off scenarios, I recken the most interesting would be around 1792

[MarshallEllis]

That would certainly be a good use of an editor.
 

[Mardonius]

On with the revolution! [:)]

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
You answered your own question. You sarcastically pointed out that RedHat linux is OpenSource and is still in business and then went on to point out that OpenSource won't work for games (which was the EXACT point I was making).

Thanks.

Sorry. I misconstrued your point.

[KenClark]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

ORIGINAL: Mardonius

Hello Marshall:

Thanks for the clarification. What about simultaneous diplomacy and economic phases? Would these work with the coding?

Thank you,
Mardonius

These would certainly be easier. I cannot see why diplomacy couldn't be this way. As for the eco phase, I must ask for opinions from a typical Russian and Turkish player as to if for example:
Should Russia see the unit LEVY of Turkey in December which would happen before Russia's eco phase and what eco decisions might this affect?

I can't possibly imagine a different economic buy by Russia due to Turkey's inevitable levy step bringing all its Feudals to full, which it would do EVERY YEAR unless they were retarded.

[Mardonius]

Often the Feudals raised in the levy are invisible to others anyway as they are off board. That has been the case in my games... It is possible that they could be raised on the board though... maybe there could be an option to not run contemporaneous economic phases in December?

[MarshallEllis]

ORIGINAL: KenClark

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

ORIGINAL: Mardonius

Hello Marshall:

Thanks for the clarification. What about simultaneous diplomacy and economic phases? Would these work with the coding?

Thank you,
Mardonius

These would certainly be easier. I cannot see why diplomacy couldn't be this way. As for the eco phase, I must ask for opinions from a typical Russian and Turkish player as to if for example:
Should Russia see the unit LEVY of Turkey in December which would happen before Russia's eco phase and what eco decisions might this affect?

I can't possibly imagine a different economic buy by Russia due to Turkey's inevitable levy step bringing all its Feudals to full, which it would do EVERY YEAR unless they were retarded.

Careful here because some feudals may be taking North Africa and raising them from Africa could hurt her position in Africa (Perhaps a reason for not raising all of the time) but she could change her strategy and pull them all out of Africa and raise them to their home provinces in a Dec eco phase and IMO as a Russian player this could change my build strategy to reinforce my border with Turkey. There could be a potential 30-40 factor swing in the area and I for one would like to see that before I purchase forces.

Again IMO.

[KenClark]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

ORIGINAL: KenClark

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis



These would certainly be easier. I cannot see why diplomacy couldn't be this way. As for the eco phase, I must ask for opinions from a typical Russian and Turkish player as to if for example:
Should Russia see the unit LEVY of Turkey in December which would happen before Russia's eco phase and what eco decisions might this affect?

I can't possibly imagine a different economic buy by Russia due to Turkey's inevitable levy step bringing all its Feudals to full, which it would do EVERY YEAR unless they were retarded.

Careful here because some feudals may be taking North Africa and raising them from Africa could hurt her position in Africa (Perhaps a reason for not raising all of the time) but she could change her strategy and pull them all out of Africa and raise them to their home provinces in a Dec eco phase and IMO as a Russian player this could change my build strategy to reinforce my border with Turkey. There could be a potential 30-40 factor swing in the area and I for one would like to see that before I purchase forces.

Again IMO.

Why would your builds change? Perhaps you build a few more corps counters? More militia? You have to realistically build for 3 months ahead of time - as the Russian player you are not likely to change builds based on the levy step. You almost for sure don't care what Turkey does in January because it takes Turkey so long to mobilize for an invasion of Russia. In which case, fo course, you let them drive halfway to Moscow before doing anything since Turkey can't really hurt you on its own except some minor production damage. This is due to the timing it takes to move the feudals from their home provinces to somewhere where they can mass up.

If you teleport the feudals in December, they don't show up anywhere near the Russian border (except maybe the Bulgarian corps). If Turkey wants to supply them in the winter, it still takes at least two turns to get them near the Russian border (more if you are trying to get the Greeks there, less for some of the cav perhaps).

I don't see how knowing that Turkey brought some corps home and could invade you in 2 turns would change your builds.

Even if there were some reason to change your builds I think the impact that this would have on the game would be extremely minimal, and the benefit in less waiting for PBEM a vast improvement.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: KenClark


Why would your builds change? Perhaps you build a few more corps counters? More militia? You have to realistically build for 3 months ahead of time - as the Russian player you are not likely to change builds based on the levy step. You almost for sure don't care what Turkey does in January because it takes Turkey so long to mobilize for an invasion of Russia. In which case, fo course, you let them drive halfway to Moscow before doing anything since Turkey can't really hurt you on its own except some minor production damage. This is due to the timing it takes to move the feudals from their home provinces to somewhere where they can mass up.

If you teleport the feudals in December, they don't show up anywhere near the Russian border (except maybe the Bulgarian corps). If Turkey wants to supply them in the winter, it still takes at least two turns to get them near the Russian border (more if you are trying to get the Greeks there, less for some of the cav perhaps).

I don't see how knowing that Turkey brought some corps home and could invade you in 2 turns would change your builds.

Even if there were some reason to change your builds I think the impact that this would have on the game would be extremely minimal, and the benefit in less waiting for PBEM a vast improvement.

I tend to agree. Typically, Russia doesn't really have to confront Turkey unless she wants to. Turkey doesn't usually have the money nor the troops to deeply (go to Moscow) invade Russia, cossacks and winter make sure of that.