ship types

[undercovergeek]

i know its here some where..................

does anyone know where the post describing each and every ship type is, have forgotten all about AG, AS, PC, PG blah blah

thanks for any help

[Mistmatz]

Thats one of the cases where the manual should be able to help... [;)]

[Minedog]

19.1.2 Appendix A in the manual is the one I consult (over and over.. what is a CS?)

[Feinder]

CS is a seaplane cruiser (or something like that).  They basically carry about 20 or so float-planes or float-fighters (only the Japanese have them).
 
-F-

[Mistmatz]

I believe CS stands for scout cruiser.

[FeurerKrieg]

So CL makes sense for a light cruiser, but why is a heavy cruiser CA? And why is a carrier CV?

[Feinder]

Oh, yeah, that's right.  CS = scout cruiser.
 
CA actually came from 'Armored' cruiser.  CL then was light cruiser (because it lacked much armor).
 
CV - stems from the originally envisioned role of the aircraft carrier - as a scout, much as the cruiser role.  Thus they were lumped into the same types as cruisers (with the 'C').  The V comes from meaning "heavier than air", describing the fact it carries aircraft (as opposed to blimps and dirgibles which are -not- heavier than air).
 
-F-

[FeurerKrieg]

Cool, thanks!

[thegreatwent]

The designations were also important since they determined the number allowed under the Washington Naval Treaties. The CV and Washington CLs didn't count towards the number of allowed CAs. These distinctions were responsible for all kinds of shipbuilding games [:)].

[TOMLABEL]

AE = CVB!!!

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Oh, yeah, that's right.  CS = scout cruiser.

CA actually came from 'Armored' cruiser.  CL then was light cruiser (because it lacked much armor).

CV - stems from the originally envisioned role of the aircraft carrier - as a scout, much as the cruiser role.  Thus they were lumped into the same types as cruisers (with the 'C').  The V comes from meaning "heavier than air", describing the fact it carries aircraft (as opposed to blimps and dirgibles which are -not- heavier than air).

-F-

The armored cruisers were also referred to as 'protected' cruisers at the turn of the century. Same ship, just a different name for them.

Funny thing about carriers is they typcially were built on BC or BB hulls prior to the war, yet were thrown into the cruiser class of vessels.

[undercovergeek]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Thats one of the cases where the manual should be able to help... [;)]

and indeed it does - but it only informs me about what the letters stand for - the post describes the ideal roles for the lesser known ships - and before i get 'terminused' i know what the BBs and CLs are for - its the PC/PG/AGS etc

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Protected cruisers were something completely different than armoured cruisers. Protected cruisers had only deck armour (while armoured ones had also belt armour), and they were ancestors of light cruisers.

In WitP there are 4 CS. All of them are seaplane carriers and have nothing common with pre WWI type of scout cruiser.

[VSWG]

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Thats one of the cases where the manual should be able to help... [;)]

and indeed it does - but it only informs me about what the letters stand for - the post describes the ideal roles for the lesser known ships - and before i get 'terminused' i know what the BBs and CLs are for - its the PC/PG/AGS etc

This should help: http://witp.kodapa.com/index.php?title=Ship_Classes

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz
Thats one of the cases where the manual should be able to help... [;)]

and indeed it does - but it only informs me about what the letters stand for - the post describes the ideal roles for the lesser known ships - and before i get 'terminused' i know what the BBs and CLs are for - its the PC/PG/AGS etc

Darn, I just can’t remember what’s in the WiTP manual, but I “think” there’s a table in there somewhere that lists what “classes” can participate in what kinds of TFs. That’s the real operational differentiation between the ‘dinky’ classes.

[Feinder]

Undercover -
 
Just some generalities -
 
PC/SC - These guys tend to be shorter range ships (usually under 2000 endurance).  Fair convoy escorts (for ASW), but all but worthless in suface action.  Think of them as bass-boats with a DC rack.  Not the best for long convoy treks (because the convoy will have to keep slowing down to refuel them).  But if you're talking about running between PH and Palmyra (about as far as I'd go), or say Tokyo and Manilla.
 
PG/DE - There are your ocean-going escorts.  Fair ASW platforms, and can operate well enough in suface combat.  They usually have 3000 - 5000 endurance, so they won't force a refuel every other turn.  Note that, esp in CHS, some of the PGs do not have ASW capabilities.  There are some old dreadnaught-style ones (Soerbaja and Idzumo come to mind), that have no ASW, but their armor is good to put them with an invasion TF to soak up some of the CD fire (unfortunately, they cannot be added to a bombardment TF where their 12" guns would be very useful).
 
DD - Best escorts (usually) for ASW and surface combat (naturally your convoy wants to -avoid- surface combat, but if push comes to shove).  But you can never have enough DDs (because you're need them for your main fleet units as well).

[FeurerKrieg]

Has anyone seen those old Japanese dreadnaughts in a surface combat? I came across those a few months back, and pulled them back to where I can keep track of them (so they don't get stuck on convoy duty). I hadn't realized before then that they do have pretty significant guns and armor.

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

The designations were also important since they determined the number allowed under the Washington Naval Treaties. The CV and Washington CLs didn't count towards the number of allowed CAs. These distinctions were responsible for all kinds of shipbuilding games [:)].

Mostly, the designations used in the game follow US Navy practice. The exceptions are for battlecruisers (US Navy designated them CC) and CLAA (the CLAA designation wasn't used until 1948; during WWII those cruisers were just CL).

The Washington treaty set limits on aircraft carriers, but didn't make any limitations on cruisers other than defining ships over 10,000 tons or with guns larger than 8" as capital ships, which were limited. The US 8" gun cruisers were originally designated CL, for light cruiser, while the Milwaukee class were CS, for scout cruiser. The London treaty set separate limits on cruisers with guns larger than 155 mm (6.1") and for cruisers with smaller guns, so the US Navy re-designated the 8" gun cruisers as CA and used CL for 6" gun cruisers, including the Milwaukees.

The Brooklyn class CLs were as large as, and better armored than the 8" gun CAs. (They were designed after most of the prewar CAs, and were only built because the US had used up its allowance for 8" gun cruisers.) The difference between the CAs and CLs was strictly in the size of gun. The RN built smaller 6" gun cruisers, since they wanted more ships. The treaty limited total tonnage for cruisers rather than number of ships.

[Feinder]

I had the two IJN dreadnaught togethe at the start of the war in one game.  I think they actually did engage some of the old USN China Squadron gunboats around Shanghai.  Not much of a match-up, the USN gunboats are crap compaired to the dreadnauts.  But after that, they're too slow and short range to catch anything, so the accompanied the invasion of Java, and then sat in Manila harbor.
 
On my current CHS vs. Bilbow, I've used the Soerbaja on quite a few occasions.  I think she actually did see a single surface action before she made it out of the SRA.  Hit a DD or something (didn't sink it), but took a torp for it.  She made it out, and now I use her in invasion TFs.  She -does- get pounded on pretty often.  She's usually got about 16 - 20 sys dmg, but her guns are still intact.  She's so slow that I haven't bothered to ever send her down to Sydney for repairs.  If I ever hit a lull where I don't need her (and if she doesn't hit a mine first), I'll have to send off for repairs (and much needed rest).
 
-F-

[thegreatwent]

"Mostly, the designations used in the game follow US Navy practice. The exceptions are for battlecruisers (US Navy designated them CC) and CLAA (the CLAA designation wasn't used until 1948; during WWII those cruisers were just CL).

The Washington treaty set limits on aircraft carriers, but didn't make any limitations on cruisers other than defining ships over 10,000 tons or with guns larger than 8" as capital ships, which were limited. The US 8" gun cruisers were originally designated CL, for light cruiser, while the Milwaukee class were CS, for scout cruiser. The London treaty set separate limits on cruisers with guns larger than 155 mm (6.1") and for cruisers with smaller guns, so the US Navy re-designated the 8" gun cruisers as CA and used CL for 6" gun cruisers, including the Milwaukees.

The Brooklyn class CLs were as large as, and better armored than the 8" gun CAs. (They were designed after most of the prewar CAs, and were only built because the US had used up its allowance for 8" gun cruisers.) The difference between the CAs and CLs was strictly in the size of gun. The RN built smaller 6" gun cruisers, since they wanted more ships. The treaty limited total tonnage for cruisers rather than number of ships."


Agreed, my mistake was in referring to CAs. The games I was referring to was the various treaty cruisers that played games with displacement, capacity of turrets in terms of tube size and how nations designated their vessels. Hard to identify if your comparing apples to apples if everyone is hiding their oranges[:)].