Italian forts

[geoffreyg]

I have only just noticed (I think) that prior to war Mantua has a 2 Fort and Venice a 1 Fort but in my two most recent games as the TE they seem to get reset to zero at the outbreak of war. I would welcome confirmation from other players that this happens to them.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: geoffreyg

I have only just noticed (I think) that prior to war Mantua has a 2 Fort and Venice a 1 Fort but in my two most recent games as the TE they seem to get reset to zero at the outbreak of war. I would welcome confirmation from other players that this happens to them.

I am sure that Mantua has a 2 level fort, but I don't recall Venice having a fort.

[FrankHunter]

Mantua starts with a level 2 fort and Venice starts with a level 1.

[geoffreyg]

My point though is that they seem to mysteriously disappear when Italy enters the war - I can send a saved game if helpful.

[FrankHunter]

No need, I can check it

[EdinHouston]

They certainly just disappeared for me in my game as the TE. Would be nice to see that fixed.

Which brings up a suggestion, is it possible to allow players to position the units of countries that enter the war? The Italians are pretty helpless to defend against a CP assault because they cant entrench on turn 1. Even if they try to retreat and move back from the border, they will be caught and defeated. If thats too hard to change, just giving them 5 trench points would help a lot (coupled with the disappearing forts being fixed); in return we could deduct 1 production point from their entry total. Or a third option would be just to start their troops away from the front line (except for Milan and Mantua of course), although that takes away much of their first turn offensive potential.

Another issue is that when doing Italy's first turn (the strategic phase), the CP units on the border dont show up, even if they are full stacks with level 4 entrenchments. The border just appears empty.

[FrankHunter]

The forts problem was fixed for 1.24.

Another issue is that when doing Italy's first turn (the strategic phase), the CP units on the border dont show up

I haven't tested it but I think this may be fixed in 1.24

Which brings up a suggestion, is it possible to allow players to position the units of countries that enter the war?

Off the top of my head I don't think I'd be able to change that. But with 1.24 they do now have their forts and they are now allowed to withdraw.

[EdinHouston]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

and they are now allowed to withdraw.

I saw this in the 1.24 thread, but I wasnt exactly sure what it meant. Could you explain? The problem I was referring to, is that with Italian units in the front line, even if they try to move away from the Germans/AH on turn 1, since units moving because of a HQ activation seem to move first, the Italian units under attack get caught and get decimated in the open. Is this going to be changed? I thought 'withdraw' meant units in a contested hex that try to use the 'withdraw' order, so I didnt realize it applied here.

[FrankHunter]

The "Withdraw" order that was used to pull troops out of contested hexes has been expanded to allow units to be moved into friendly non-contested hexes with a priority rating as high as activated units.

[EdinHouston]

ah I see. Good idea. Thank you.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: EdinHouston

ah I see. Good idea. Thank you.

This may help to avoid the situation in our game where a largely intact Russian army tried to withdrawal (trading space for time as the Russian often did)but was mauled by the Germans before they could do so.

[FrankHunter]

It was dpstafford's idea, if it works out give him the credit.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

It was dpstafford's idea, if it works out give him the credit.

So even if the units using the withdraw order will have the same priority rating as activated units there is a chance they will not succeed and will undergo attack? If so this seems to be a good compromise.

[FrankHunter]

Yes. I'll say upfront, this change hasn't been playtested obviously except by me which isn't much.

So, I gave units on Withdraw orders a slightly higher priority number than activated units which are higher than non-activated units. Then you add to that priority modifiers for readiness, quality and terrain as well as a random value.

So its possible if you have let's say 3 units in a hex that are retreating that it will be uncertain as to whether all, none or some will be caught by attacking enemy forces but if everything else is equal the withdrawing forces should be able to move first.

HQs and artillery move last.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Yes. I'll say upfront, this change hasn't been playtested obviously except by me which isn't much.

So, I gave units on Withdraw orders a slightly higher priority number than activated units which are higher than non-activated units. Then you add to that priority modifiers for readiness, quality and terrain as well as a random value.

So its possible if you have let's say 3 units in a hex that are retreating that it will be uncertain as to whether all, none or some will be caught by attacking enemy forces but if everything else is equal the withdrawing forces should be able to move first.

HQs and artillery move last.

This sounds good in theory. It reflects the actual conditions that would allow or prohibit a successful withdrawal and it is consistent with the logic of the game design, because after all units that were actually engaged in combat in the same contested hex where able to withdrawal so it would seem at least plausible for units in a non-contested hex, attempting to withdrawal before an enemy offensive, should have some chance of getting out of harms way.