Supply units

[James Ward]

Is it possible to make a new unit that would give supply, perhaps level 15 or 20?
The reason I ask is that invasions are very hard to do in this game. It is relatively easy to put a 5 or 6 strength unit in each port and occupy all adjacent hexes with weak divisions and virtually assure that port cannot be taken. If a supply unit could be brought along it would make invasions more viable. If it was expensive (over 1000 pp) it would be less likely to be overused. Just a thought.

[comrade]

We need to think this through. Is it really that diffictult to take port having total air superiority? If you have 3-4 air units, you can do 6-8 air strikes. Then, usually, you can bombard from the sea. Then land with strongest, high-lev corps units and it shouldn't be that hard to capture the port...

[James Ward]

I think it is very difficult to take a port by amphibious landing, particulrly in the Med. Try it out the way you suggest where the port is occuied by 6 strength corp and all adjacent hexes are occupied by 2 strength point divisions. I don't think you will have the air power to take the port unless you are lucky enough to eliminte the 6 point unit with air alone. I'm not sure I've ever eliminated one at that strength even with air at level 5.

[James Ward]

I was thinkng of a supply unit with a max move of 1 and strat movement cost of 10+. If it could be put into the game it would prevent the building of the 'perfect' defense once France falls.
One thing I really like about this game is that it is almost impossible to build the 'super units' tht so many other games of this type let you build. I'd hate for an unbeatable defense to be able to be built quite cheaply.

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I think it is very difficult to take a port by amphibious landing, particulrly in the Med. Try it out the way you suggest where the port is occuied by 6 strength corp and all adjacent hexes are occupied by 2 strength point divisions. I don't think you will have the air power to take the port unless you are lucky enough to eliminte the 6 point unit with air alone. I'm not sure I've ever eliminated one at that strength even with air at level 5.

I think an easy solution is to add ports on the map so it could be difficult garrisoning properly all of them.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: JMass

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I think it is very difficult to take a port by amphibious landing, particulrly in the Med. Try it out the way you suggest where the port is occuied by 6 strength corp and all adjacent hexes are occupied by 2 strength point divisions. I don't think you will have the air power to take the port unless you are lucky enough to eliminte the 6 point unit with air alone. I'm not sure I've ever eliminated one at that strength even with air at level 5.

I think an easy solution is to add ports on the map so it could be difficult garrisoning properly all of them.

That would also be an idea. Right now there are only 4 ports in France/Holland/Germany and only 2 in Italy that can be reached by air power. It doesn't take many resuorces to make them pretty impossible to assault.

[mavraamides]

Another possible solution would be to do what was actually done in the Normandy invasion: 

Build an artificial harbor. 

I guess that would be a lot like the supply unit only it would be immobile after installation.
Make it very expensive and immobile and it should pretty much eliminate any sort of gamey use.

Here's another idea that reflects something that was actually occasionally done:

Air supply.  Make a new kind of air unit that can be called in to supply a unit in enemy territory.
It would of course still be subject to the same air combat liabilities that any other air operation has.

Food for thought...

[Lucky1]

I am a fan of the artificial harbour proposal. It is historic and should not be difficult to implement (Clash of Steel did it reasonably well). The harbour could give a reduced rate of supply commensurate with its strength for a couple of turns. If it is damaged, it provides reduced supply etc.

[winky51]

Air supply is quite difficult to do.  The German's couldnt do it successfully at Stalingrad and the Allies couldnt do it successfully at Bastogne.

[Twotribes]

I agree air can not bring in enough, however Bastogne is not a good example because of the lack of clear skies.

[mavraamides]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

I agree air can not bring in enough, however Bastogne is not a good example because of the lack of clear skies.

And neither was Stalingrad because of a lack of air superiority as well as weather issues.

But presumably if needed, the Allies could have provided some supply by air at Normandy where they had complete control of the air.

[James Ward]

One other invasion related gripe is that none of the ports in France are in standard visibility range of the UK.
You have absolutely no idea what is in or around any of them and can only find out by landing a sacrificial lamb. While you can be pretty sure they are occupied by something it sure is costly to find out by what!

[winky51]

There are so many reasons it doesnt work that well and any of them can affect air supply.
 
1. weather
2. air superiority
3. missing the drop zone
4. insufficient quantity
5. physical capacity
6. drop zone moved because of change in battlefield ownership
7. damaged airdrop
8. air dropped in lake
9. air dropped to enemy.
 
just missing one day of supply drops escalates the effect of units being out of supply.
 
But yea a landing supply unit wouldnt be bad. 
 
 
Or a very simple solution is automatically make the supply level of any unit invading the highest or even beyond if the code allows it. 
 
This could represent supplies landed on the beach. 

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

invasions are very hard to do in this game.

And permit convoys to any coastal hex to give landing units just a low supply (5-10 supply points, better than nothing)? Small ports are common along coasts.

[doomtrader]

Of course I'm reading this thread too.
Unfortunately I'm afraid that changes like that are not possible. Supply system is based upon the cities, so it would force the engine to create the artifical city. Of course we will think about some kind of solution but at the moment I say impossible.

[Plainian]

The visibility range is obviously hard coded and set at begining of game. If it was variable during the game and accessible (using the Event engine then you could have it changing over time? If it was also possible to have it it set so that different countries had different visibilities. The you could have a wide range of possibilities.
 
eg Allied visibility increases in 44 to 6-7 - makes cross channel invasions easier - Enigma
eg German visibility decreases with time - allows Soviets to spring surprises.
eg Soviet visibility increases with time - better intelligence
eg it could be used be used to show effects of weather - ie visibility reduces in Winter months - Ardennes Offensive etc
 
Just a thought.
 
 

[doomtrader]

Visibility range is set in options, so your proposal might be use as house rules

[Plainian]

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Visibility range is set in options, so your proposal might be use as house rules

Yes you are right. For some reason I assumed it was set at Game start and couldn't be changed? It can be changed at any point in the game. I haven't tried a PBEM game yet. Can it be changed during a PBEM game? So s german I start the game, set it to 15 to check French units in rear then return it to 4 or 5 before finishing my turn? For PBEM the visibility should be fixed when the game starts?

When suggesting changing visibilities I was hoping that the game would do it depending on what year, what month and what country was being moved.