Naval house rules

[macgregor]

Considering that TOAW4 is still quite a ways off I thought I'd try to figure out a a way to improve naval combat through the use of house rules that would make naval combat more realistic. These rules would require a scenario (or scenarios) that had special bioed created units. I wold like to hear the opinion of my fellow gamers and scenario designers on these.

Variable movement- Each naval unit has a number after it's name in parenthesis. With a trusted opponent, this should be used as the unit's movement allowance. As you probably know, naval units at sea are always in supply, and so, are considered to be 'on patrol'. Their movement allowance does not represent their straight line range, but their ability to change station. Ground units using sea transport are also restricted to an allowance set by the scenario, though this does represent their straight line range.
Radar- Listed in the unit name [ex; USS Iowa(32R)]
Gunnery range- Some ships will have a gunnery range of 2 hexes. This is not accurate to the mapscale but instead used to more realistically recreate the effect of longer ranged weapons.
Standoff range- This represents radar and spotter planes. 1 for Heavy, medium, and 'task force' units, and 2 for CV of any type.
Standoff Proceedure -When a naval unit is encountered, if the encountered hex contains a Heavy Naval, the moving unit must move directly backward one hex. If the encountered hex contains a CV of any type the moving unit must backup 2 hexes. (If it does not have sufficient movement the player must not attack, but inform his opponent, and allow him to retreat without combat if he desires -not applicable if using variable movement, in which case no movement cost is incurred). But under normal circumstances the moving unit would then have to make a choice:
1.- Remain where it is
2. - Retreat
3. - Engage
If it remains, it may attack a Heavy Naval unit from 2 hexes away(provided it has the gunnery range). If it retreats it may use the rest of it's movement, but must end it's movement farther in hexes from the encountered unit than the standoff range. If it wishes to engage, the moving unit may advance one hex toward the encountered unit but may not attack. Units that begin a turn next to an enemy naval unit(s) however must first attack at least one unit or stack with at least one unit before any naval unit in the stack can move(exception: submarines). Friendly naval units can be brought in for support, but may not participate directly. If granted more movement after the attack they may then move freely (Note: if using variable movement, the percentage of the turn expended should be subtracted from movement). Attacking naval units must always provide enemy naval units a retreat hex. When CV or CVL, or Heavy Naval, task force, or medium units with radar are doing the encountering, they have the option of backing up one hex and following the standoff proceedure against light naval units. Medium and light naval units( as well as Task force units without radar) that encounter each other must attack before(or wait for the opponent to) before continuing movement. (Note; Standoff range is enforced for already spotted units as well.)
*Heavy units represent slower moving heavy ships(25kts or less). Medium and light units have the option of attacking these units the same turn they engage and, provided the turn doesn't end, may use the rest of their designated movement(minus the % of the turn expended). Transported land units that encounter enemy naval units must stop movement and wait until attacked. Escorts may enter the hex, and support brought in. In which case the escorts (only) must attack from the same hex before the stack can move. Transported land units observe standoff rules, but cannot use the retreat option. Units encountering transported land units may attack freely, including submarines. (Note; 'support' indicates friendly surface units moving next to the combat hex only)
Blockades may be emplaced, but one empty hex must be provided for units to 'run the blockade' after combat.
Submarines must always be attacked before continuing movement by the first naval unit to encounter them. Standoff range does not apply to submarines. Once any naval unit encounters a submarine, no naval units may move to support it. Unless prohibited by a lack of remaining movement -not applicable if using variable movement. All friendly units must backoff the unit that encountered the submarine one hex. Submarines must always remain at least one hex away from friendly naval units(including other submarines). When a moving submarine encounters a naval unit, it must backup one hex and follow the standoff proceedure (not necessary with transported land units or convoys -see below). Subs may be attacked by aircraft, but only once per turn and only by one air unit.
Aircraft (including carrirer based) are not restricted from attacking in any way and may do so at will. (Note; Carriers may retreat and attack with aircraft in the same turn).
Ports- may only be attacked by air units. Units next to a port may be attacked by enemy naval units, but only if they have a retreat hex (Note; the port can work as a retreat hex).
Convoy units- Will require a special symbol, but with the same properties as a one-hex island. Once established through theater option, a chain of these convoy units will appear (approx every 400km) connecting resources to factories. Industry units like the ones in Europe Aflame(only not as large) will arrive and withdraw from these hexes, attackable from the sea as well as the air.

[macgregor]

My naval house rules appear to be sinking faster than HMS Hood. Does no one care to post an opinion?

[L`zard]

Not necessarily, Greg!

Some of us are just taking our own sweet time considering the issue, eh? As myself and 'group' are primarily interested in WW1, obviously some parts don't seem to apply, eh?

Some parts 'may be edible', LOL!

Your convoy system is an interesting approach, but would seem to need considerable use of the event engine. I'm surprised how fast the available event slots disappear myself.....

[macgregor]

Thanks L'zard. It's there for whoever wants to use it.

[cesteman]

Ok, I'll chime in here. Will TOAW4 address the issues/problems with the naval part of the game? I know it's been talked about before but I can't recall seeing anything on a real update. Cheers.

[macgregor]

It's all on the list. But it's a big list.

[cesteman]

I haven't gone through the list yet. I'd love to see what your suggesting but I need to think on movement. I'll get back to you

[macgregor]

ORIGINAL: L`zard
Your convoy system is an interesting approach, but would seem to need considerable use of the event engine. I'm surprised how fast the available event slots disappear myself.....

If you use this idea, I feel the convoys should be placed within 400km of each other, though in a way that best favors the convoy from air attack, as it will be they who would plan the departure, using nightfall to their advantage.

[cesteman]

Do you remember a game called 5th fleet? I think Avalon Hill made both a board and computer version. I loved the idea and tried to work with the game but it kept crashing on me so I threw it in the trash. It's probably been 11+ years since it came out but it was something I was hoping would pop back up again in better form.
 
Now on to your ideas. I think it's a very good starting point. Movement. There are a lot of what if's that I know I'm missing. I need to go back and read the wish list some more. I think I missed something. Cheers.

[macgregor]

Thanks. I had that boardgame. I don't have the time or ambition to learn how to do my own scenario. But if I could help someone else, I would greatly appreciate it. The point of these rules is, to an extent to show that without radically changing the game structure, a fairly realistic navcomsim is possible.

[cesteman]

yes I agree 100%.

[macgregor]

Something that might help people understand. An unknown naval unit will still give away it's type, which is why I based standoff movement on this. Ships designated as 'Heavy' will be all those which can launch spotter aircraft. I did not make any special rules regarding light naval units. One idea might be to give certain, perhaps faster(or torpedo equipped) ships an ability to attack the same turn as they engage. Providing the turn doesn't end, this may allow these vessels a 'hit and run' capability.

[cesteman]

Like uboats? I'm liking it.

[macgregor]

I don't know about that. I think I figured them out. The thing is; subs don't move very fast. I'm thinking about perhaps granting a standoff range to medium, and now 'task force' naval units and use the three types to distinguish slow moving ships from the faster ones. Heavy ships capable of only 25 kts or less would be heavy, while those capable of over 30 kts would be medium. Perhaps 'task force' could represent those in between. 'Light' could still represent faster torpedo bearing ships down to PT boats. When attacking heavy units, light and medium units could be granted this capability. Because 'light' would designate agile faster ships, maybe they could be granted this capability with 'task force' units as well.

There. I just modified the rules. My time is limited so I'll have to proofread when I get back

[cesteman]

I just hope it doesn't get too complicated[:D]