Liz

[Japan]

Will AE Include Abilety for Japan to Produse the LIZ 4E Bomber if thay want to?







[&o]

[wdolson]

AE includes just about every combat aircraft from the war, including some obscure ones.  I haven't looked, but I believe the Liz is included.

Bill

[Terminus]

It isn't.

[jwilkerson]

But the wonderful new editor is ready and waiting for modders to key away!
[:)]

[bradfordkay]

I find it interesting that CHS has the Liz, but AE will not...[&:]

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I find it interesting that CHS has the Liz, but AE will not...[&:]

Keep in mind that, although some of the people that worked on CHS are now helping to develop AE, the starting point for developing the AE scenarios was not CHS, but the official scenarios.

Andrew

[bradfordkay]

Yeah, but my opponent is deeply involved with the Japanese aircraft database in AE, and he seems to LOVE the Liz...[;)]

[Japan]

Well, maby you gents can consider it for a Patch...
 
Afterall, it was many Officers in the Jap HQ who wanted to Serial Produce the Liz, but eventualy declined due to the Engines Required...
 
 
 

[Feinder]

Just as being an Allied player on the recieving end of these things, I'm not sure they're worth the effort for Japan.  In CHS, they don't carry torps (rather bombs), which makes them better at AF suppression than the Bettys.  But by the time the Liz comes around (mid-end of 42), there are fewer instances of actively suppressing Allied AFs.  And it's decent range is worthless without escort (esp if you're attacking a Allied AF, there -will- be CAP).

It's a good ASW plane (long range, and bombs).  But again, since Japan is defending an interior perimeter with (usually) inter-locking bases, you can probably get more milage out of 2e Sally/Helens (shorter range, but you normally have the AFs to support), and the Sally/Helens cost half as much to produce.  And the 2es can use smaller AFs.

Don't get me wrong, they're kind of neat, but it really becomes a matter of objectively saying that you can accomplish the exact same mission with cheaper airframes.

-F-

[Zakhal]

Don't get me wrong, they're kind of neat, but it really becomes a matter of objectively saying that you can accomplish the exact same mission with cheaper airframes.

-F-

It still wouldnt hurt to have more variety. And it should be up to the japanese player to discover by himself how good/bad the plane is. Trying out different planes is part of the game (and most fun part at that).

[Elessar]

Having them around would at least sometimes force the allied player to have some fighters fly cap over his four engine bomber bases, which would otherwise be out of range. The problem is that outdated fighters not fit to escort the bombers would be sufficient at that task as soon as you get beyond japanes escort range. The A6M2 has a range of 10 but should not be expected to perform at its peak over such a distance.

It is horrible, no way to come even close to copying allied heavy bomber raids . Just having a few heavies yourself does not help...

[Shark7]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't the G3M and G4M also have better range than the Liz?  What you trade is range for bomb-load and durability.
 
Every reference I have found gives a range of around 2300nm

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

It still wouldnt hurt to have more variety.

Oh there is plenty more variety - on both sides!

[Terminus]

And there has to be SOME modder fodder...

[Japan]

Roger.

Btw. (From a Tactical Perspective)
Regarding the Liz, I personaly prefere to build them as you get that extra punch on Airfield Createring and Port Strikes, 
Good for Theaters like India and can with sucsess also be used in New Gunney and China. I also like to build them only to give the Allies One More Factor to Consern about, and thay are handy if you Invade and Occupie the  US West Coast and also are handy if you decide to Invade Soviet Union... Actualy, I think its a Overall Good Tool To Produse arround 50-60 of...



Sad the Japs Decided to Decline both the Duglus (Liz) and the JU-89

JU-89 Strateagic Bomber

 

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Elessar

Having them around would at least sometimes force the allied player to have some fighters fly cap over his four engine bomber bases, which would otherwise be out of range. The problem is that outdated fighters not fit to escort the bombers would be sufficient at that task as soon as you get beyond japanes escort range. The A6M2 has a range of 10 but should not be expected to perform at its peak over such a distance.

It is horrible, no way to come even close to copying allied heavy bomber raids . Just having a few heavies yourself does not help...

You're joking, of course.

[m10bob]

The Douglas XB 19 was used as a transport during the war, and since it was actually built, and has 4 engines, it might be nifty keen to have...but since the venerable C 46 did the same job, was actually built in larger numbers, and had bigger doors, I believe I would opt for the C 46...

My nickel.

[Przemcio231]

Well good that Liz will be out... i can imagine hundreds of those planes attacking allied airfields. And in the mean time allies will be unable to produce more fighters .