Help: Subs; Replenish & Naval Strikes

[bluesteel]

Had game for long time but first serious attempt to play it and 3 REAL problems.

1) Read forums and advised not to let computer control anything. I took control of all subs and point blank they did NOTHING. From 12/7/41 to March of 42 almost every sub still had all of its torpedo and not 1 ship sunk. 3 to 4 subs in a hex and Jap task force passed through and nothing. Turned control back to computer. Initial success first couple of days but then returned all subs to home base where they just sit. Plenty of fuel/supply. Over thirty. Mad subs in one port

2) Replenish not working. Made replenish TF with TK& AO; only AD and support and only TK with support. Loaded just fuel in some; just oil in some and they will not replenish my other task forces. I have replenish TF in same hex but all TF just replenish from within same task force. Carries running out of fuel and replenish Tf has over 48,000 gallons and does nothing.

3) Naval strikes. Have good AF in Gi Gi and Port Moseby. Proper planes assigned naval strike as 1st assignment. Normally do a great job HOWEVER now for the 4th time AI brings Jap carrier task force into area. The TF destroying every attempt to supply either base and my planes NEVER try to attack them. Will go after much lower priority targets elsewhere or literally do nothing. Enough planes/pilots /fuel etc and pilots well rested.

Any help in any of the three areas very much appreciated

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: hitech

Had game for long time but first serious attempt to play it and 3 REAL problems.

1) Read forums and advised not to let computer control anything. I took control of all subs and point blank they did NOTHING. From 12/7/41 to March of 42 almost every sub still had all of its torpedo and not 1 ship sunk. 3 to 4 subs in a hex and Jap task force passed through and nothing. Turned control back to computer. Initial success first couple of days but then returned all subs to home base where they just sit. Plenty of fuel/supply. Over thirty. Mad subs in one port

2) Replenish not working. Made replenish TF with TK& AO; only AD and support and only TK with support. Loaded just fuel in some; just oil in some and they will not replenish my other task forces. I have replenish TF in same hex but all TF just replenish from within same task force. Carries running out of fuel and replenish Tf has over 48,000 gallons and does nothing.

3) Naval strikes. Have good AF in Gi Gi and Port Moseby. Proper planes assigned naval strike as 1st assignment. Normally do a great job HOWEVER now for the 4th time AI brings Jap carrier task force into area. The TF destroying every attempt to supply either base and my planes NEVER try to attack them. Will go after much lower priority targets elsewhere or literally do nothing. Enough planes/pilots /fuel etc and pilots well rested.

Any help in any of the three areas very much appreciated

OK, I'll try to help:

I assume your are playing as the allies.

1. 3-4 subs per hex will not help. Only 1 sub in each hex will attack and/or be attacked (by ships). It may take some time before you see results and against the AI, you probably will not have as much success as you would against a human. Even if the sub is on computer control, you must assign it to it's patrol zone. Once the sub returns to port it will not leave until you tell it to. Early in the war, I have good success with the subs on "human control", and I like to put them directly on base/atoll hexes that I know that the Japanese are resuppling. There is a major danger to this...the sub will be easier to spot and easier to sink. A safe method is to set a screen of 3-4 subs in 2-3 hexes in front of the base that you know will be getting resupplied. Later in the war, target shipping routes to oil/resoure TF heading to the Home Island.

2. Oil is not for replenishing TFs. Oil is only good for industry. To replenish TFs, you need to have both the receiving TF and the replenish TF in the same hex. Then hit the "refuel at sea" button on the receiving TF. TKs will not help you in a replenishment TF only AOs will replenish ship in another TF. TK will replenish ships in the TF they are in, not matter what type of TF it is.

3. Early in the war, it is hard to get air units to attack CV TFs, and the early allied planes are not very effective. You also have to be concerned about the size of the AF. On a size 1 AF, you can only do cap. On a size 2, fighters, Dive Bombers, and Torpedo Bombers can do offensive operations or LRCap, but you won't have much success with LBs using this small of AF. Some LBers will fly from size 3 AFs, but not often. Morale is very important, also. If the target hex is CAP heavy (like CV TFs), and you don't have many escorts, air unit will usually not attack.

Hope this helps.

[Feinder]

Stupid time-out bug!

1) Read forums and advised not to let computer control anything. I took control of all subs and point blank they did NOTHING. From 12/7/41 to March of 42 almost every sub still had all of its torpedo and not 1 ship sunk. 3 to 4 subs in a hex and Jap task force passed through and nothing. Turned control back to computer. Initial success first couple of days but then returned all subs to home base where they just sit. Plenty of fuel/supply. Over thirty. Mad subs in one port

FY, once you've started a game with subs to computer control, the AI will take control of them if they're in port with less than 3 sys dmg (meaning it'll send them out on computer control) when you think they're sitting in port. Also, early war, many of your sub capts have low aggress. Try to find sub capts with aggression over 50 or over 60, -and- skill over 50 or 60 better (no good being aggressive if you're an idiot). Even with your subs attacking USN torps suck, so you'll get more attacks, but few hits (just be forwarned). Frankly, your best subs early war are the British, Dutch, and USN S-boats. All the rest as usually best used for minelaying and troop evac. Once your USN torps are ok (about summer 43), you'll also have radar on subs, it'll help them find the TFs in their hex.

2) Replenish not working. Made replenish TF with TK& AO; only AD and support and only TK with support. Loaded just fuel in some; just oil in some and they will not replenish my other task forces. I have replenish TF in same hex but all TF just replenish from within same task force. Carries running out of fuel and replenish Tf has over 48,000 gallons and does nothing.

I don't think you can create a replen TF with TKs (did you create a transport or tanker TF?). Either way, if you do have a "replenishment TF" in same hex as any other TF, you should be able to click on the TF that needs fuel, and click on "replen at sea". I should draw fuel from then replen TF if it has sufficient ops points. Drawing fuel burns ops points on both the AO and the receiving ship. When the AO runs out of ops points, it can't refuel anything else that turn (even if it has more fuel).

3) Naval strikes. Have good AF in Gi Gi and Port Moseby. Proper planes assigned naval strike as 1st assignment. Normally do a great job HOWEVER now for the 4th time AI brings Jap carrier task force into area. The TF destroying every attempt to supply either base and my planes NEVER try to attack them. Will go after much lower priority targets elsewhere or literally do nothing. Enough planes/pilots /fuel etc and pilots well rested.

A very common frustration (getting your planes to attack what you want them to attack). Presuming both the CVs and transports are spotted, your planes will actually be more likely to the CVs (whether you like it or not). HOWEVER, if hte enemy CVs have a bunch of CAP, your strike will go after the transports. In order to "encourage" your strike vs. heavily CAP'd enemy CVs, you need more escorts for your strike. You usually need a minimum of one escort per 3 CAP. No you can't know how many fighters are over the enemy carriers; basically you just have to assign more fighters to escort.

-F-

[bluesteel]

First thanks for the replies.
1) Ref the subs: Charbroiled - I have tried the tactic that you mentions. Only result was damge or loss of subs. Subs in port are under computer control.
When the Jap carrier first came by Port Mosby I took charge of all the sunbs and sent them all around the area. Carrier came/went and never a torpedo fired but as like in the other tactic took some good hit on the subs. Feinder; aware of torpedo problem however issue is seldom are they being fired. Subs running low on fuel and still have all their torpedos. Currently I am at 9/20/42. Will check aggression rating however for the subs - haven't done that - thanks

2) Replenish - Gentlemen, from memory of when I first played the game did have AO Replenish Tf in same hex as carrier or surface TF. I was just desperate and trying different methods as I could not fuel my ships. Just tried a situation: did replenish TF (Carrier TF) at sea. The carrier tasf force only ships in hex. Basically the destryyers were the only ships refueled. Went back and started date again and broubht in replenish TF. Tried the replenish at sea form both TF. Carrier TF again just the destroyers and for the replenish Tf the escorts ships were the only ships refueled. Carriers getting low on fuel and will have to return to port. Left ship in same hex for several days and tried again with same results. Maybe I'm wrong but I swear that the replenish TF use to refuel my carriers or battleships. Can you advise.

3) Naval attacks - yes the Jap carriers TF are spotted. I knwo the number has changed many times but currently haver 2 fighter/bomber squads in Port Mosby. 1has 16 planes and 19 pilots with morale of 96 and the other 71 planes and 69 pilots with morale of 96 also. Two bomber squads 1 with 39 planes and 54 pilots: morale =51 and the other is 36 planes; 39 pilots and 51 morale. Air field size 6 if I remember corectly. Gili Gili has two fighter units 15/21 and morale 91 ; 2nd squad 8/43 with 94 morale. ! bomber unit w/11 planes; 17 pilots and 53 morale.

These planes of attacked sevral larger surface combat TF but never once the carriers. Once the carriers got within range of the land based bombers at Cooktown but they also never attacked. Is very frustraing and extremely difficult to resupply my bases. Every attempt bring the carrier TF back. Challenged them once with my carriers and lost EVERYTHING and barely even got a hit on them. Forgive me had to cheat and restart from a previously saved date.

Your information has helped a little. Thanks; any additional toughts would be appreciated

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: hitech

First thanks for the replies.
1) Ref the subs: Charbroiled - I have tried the tactic that you mentions. Only result was damge or loss of subs. Subs in port are under computer control.
When the Jap carrier first came by Port Mosby I took charge of all the sunbs and sent them all around the area. Carrier came/went and never a torpedo fired but as like in the other tactic took some good hit on the subs. Feinder; aware of torpedo problem however issue is seldom are they being fired. Subs running low on fuel and still have all their torpedos. Currently I am at 9/20/42. Will check aggression rating however for the subs - haven't done that - thanks

2) Replenish - Gentlemen, from memory of when I first played the game did have AO Replenish Tf in same hex as carrier or surface TF. I was just desperate and trying different methods as I could not fuel my ships. Just tried a situation: did replenish TF (Carrier TF) at sea. The carrier tasf force only ships in hex. Basically the destryyers were the only ships refueled. Went back and started date again and broubht in replenish TF. Tried the replenish at sea form both TF. Carrier TF again just the destroyers and for the replenish Tf the escorts ships were the only ships refueled. Carriers getting low on fuel and will have to return to port. Left ship in same hex for several days and tried again with same results. Maybe I'm wrong but I swear that the replenish TF use to refuel my carriers or battleships. Can you advise.

3) Naval attacks - yes the Jap carriers TF are spotted. I knwo the number has changed many times but currently haver 2 fighter/bomber squads in Port Mosby. 1has 16 planes and 19 pilots with morale of 96 and the other 71 planes and 69 pilots with morale of 96 also. Two bomber squads 1 with 39 planes and 54 pilots: morale =51 and the other is 36 planes; 39 pilots and 51 morale. Air field size 6 if I remember corectly. Gili Gili has two fighter units 15/21 and morale 91 ; 2nd squad 8/43 with 94 morale. ! bomber unit w/11 planes; 17 pilots and 53 morale.

These planes of attacked sevral larger surface combat TF but never once the carriers. Once the carriers got within range of the land based bombers at Cooktown but they also never attacked. Is very frustraing and extremely difficult to resupply my bases. Every attempt bring the carrier TF back. Challenged them once with my carriers and lost EVERYTHING and barely even got a hit on them. Forgive me had to cheat and restart from a previously saved date.

Your information has helped a little. Thanks; any additional toughts would be appreciated

What version are you running? 1.806?

1. Sound like agression rating or very bad luck.

2. Make sure it is a replenishment TF with only AOs (w/escorts) and not a tanker TF. It sounds like the destroyers are refueling from within the TF (i.e. from BBs, CAs, CVs). Check OP points for all ships before replenishing.

3. What is the AF size of Gili Gili? The units with a morale of around 50 probably will not launch if there is heavy CAP covering the TFs. What do you have assigned as escort? Do not assign a secondary mission...have "Rest" assigned as the secondary mission.

[bluesteel]

Thanks again for the reply's:

Yes, version 1.806

Checked aggression rating for sub officers and ranges from 47 to a high of 65. Some have  very good rating and still not firing torpedoes. Will watch this closer. Just so much to do at the beginning of the game.

Ok, a little progress. Ships have ZERO OP points. Checked almost every task force and over 90% of the ships have zero OP points. Replenish Tf from port and VERY few received any OP points. Some TF just arrived and others have been there a while. This really seems to be at the core of my problem but not sure what I am doing wrong that so many ships don't have any. Example; had carrier in prot for repairs and escorts. When created new carrier TF it had no OP points. Stayed there a week and did replenish from port and still no OP point. Surface fleet at diff port did recive points. I must be missing something but at least I am learning. Replenish TF only have AO and escort ships. NO OP points in any of them and since they are not working some just sitting in port loaded with fuel.

Gili Gili has had so many diff air squadrons. Getting reoeated attacks on the base from carrier and land based bombers. Earlier had a lot more fighters for escort and cap. AF capacity is 4(3). Have the 15 fighters assigned as escort and the other squadron as CAP for the base.

[VSWG]

No ops points is good... Every ship can spend 1000 ops points per phase - 0 means that a ships has not used a single ops point yet.

Can you post a screenshot of your replen. TF?

[erstad]

On the replenish - this is normal, in my experience. Only the ships which are lowest on fuel replenish, typically the DDs. But after the other ships (which start with more fuel) get down to roughly the same amount of fuel, they will replenish.

If one really wants to top off a TF for some reason, one can move most of the ships to a separate TF. Refuel at sea, then transfer the ships that refueled (you can see this from the op points) back to the original. Go back to the separate TF, refuel again. Rinse, repeat until all are fueled or nothing more refuels. This is usually more trouble than it's worth, though.

[rogueusmc]

And the sub issue...

I believe that the subs only attack TFs that stop in their hex...passing through they don'tget a chance to attack.

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I don't think you can create a replen TF with TKs (did you create a transport or tanker TF?). Either way, if you do have a "replenishment TF" in same hex as any other TF, you should be able to click on the TF that needs fuel, and click on "replen at sea". I should draw fuel from then replen TF if it has sufficient ops points. Drawing fuel burns ops points on both the AO and the receiving ship. When the AO runs out of ops points, it can't refuel anything else that turn (even if it has more fuel).

The Exception is if your Japanese and you Keep the built in TF #1 Replenish with TK's in it

And those TK in it DO replenish....

[Cmdrcain]

On the Sub thing

Even IF you have subs Human Controlled do remember if start game with the default, normal sub doctrine for japanese or USA, that will be used for subs attacking so japanese doctrine is to target warships, US/Allied is to target transports/convoys..

If turn off the doctrine I think subs then will shoot any enemy ship equally

it may also be why if use doctrine, subs will not shoot certain ships as they get low on ammo


Also to Replenish a SUB you must either be in a port of right size with supply OR have an AS ship in port

If Port is of size an AS ship is required and theres none , subs don't reload... AD reloads Destroyers...

[bluesteel]

Thanks for all the help and replies. I certainly have learned some things. How do I send a screenshot to show my replenish TF to VSWG?

[VSWG]

Look at section 4 here: tm.asp?m=1562758 [:)]

[Lecivius]

As for the aircraft, are they a mixed unit of US/Australian/Other Nationality?  I'm curious.
 
I do not have anywhere near the experience of the other folks in this thread helping, but I have noticed that attack aircraft from lesser nations ( and I use that term loosely, I know.  Aussies & Dutch did a heck of a job given what tools they had back then ) do not attack KB.  I'm not sure why, or even if it is just me and bad luck.

[bluesteel]

Planes are Australian and US. Was gone all weekend but will try some of the suggestions. REALLY APPRECITAE THE WONDERFUL REPLIES AND SUGGESTIONS.