Is This Game Playable Yet?

[RayKinStL]

Every time I try to download that tutorial, I get a broken link.
 
Ray

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: RayKinStL

Every time I try to download that tutorial, I get a broken link.

Ray

It's really irrelevant since I don't believe Matrix made that tutorial. It was from the community (someone in the community), which should not pass for a professional tutorial from the publisher/dev of this game. If this game was OpenSource and free then the community could have at it, but it's not, it's actually very expensive for a PC game. The lack of helpfulness from MatrixGames is simply not acceptable.

[GShock]

That's it. Luckily the solutions i proposed are very economic.

A video converter costs 50$ even less. Get someone with a good voice to explain each phase in detail for a start, then each page, then the most important rules. You can build the next game menu with a tutorials section, which links to the mpegs.

Get a grognard player to rebuild the manual condensing EiA and EiANW into a single manual, superdetailed, with examples, in PDF with pictures, exact procedures, rules and all possible details. That someone must repatch the manual every time the game is patched...and pdf is totally free. Then it's about the UI and tooltips...which help those who read the manual less than 10 times.

The example, is the first thing...let's look at some other game, WBTS, which is much much less complex than EiANW. To begin with, the manual is HUGE and you can see both links in the menu. The second voice: Video tutorials is the one the new players would desperately need.



A very easy concept like the scouting, is taken on the video tutorials. (There are 15 tutorials, fifteen!)
Look at how the tutorial is done, yellow circle by the mouse cursor, subtitles and the voice (which of course u can't hear in this SS)



Very easy concept? Yes...yet look, the scouting mission along with the cavalry raid takes 2 pages in the manual (which is one hundred and twenty eight pages long) and it carries on as you can see. Regardless the detail of descriptions, players often won't understand until they see the concept in practice.



This can be a community-based project but the decision to start it must come from you, Ellis. The game is complex enough to scare people away...that's not just me or that review which i casually found when looking for the game manual. You need to do something about it and i think WBTS took the right path that's why i showed it as example.

[Marshall Ellis]

Maybe more like these?
Good, Bad?
 
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/285/videos/Empires.in.Arms
 
 

[Grapeshot Bob]

My God,
 
 
I've posted a few times about all these problems. Since v1.0, in fact.
 
I'll continue to check back periodically to see how the development process is going. If it looks ok, then I'll reload the game and give it a try.
 
 
 
GSB

[Mardonius]

Ralegh's videos are very helpful... Would love to see more.

best,
Mardonius

[GShock]

The main difference between WBTS vids and EiANW vids is not the obvious (and visible) difference in video quality and lenght but the terminology and methods used.

Vid tutorials are embedded in the game, part of the installation directly visible clicking on the game menu. They relate exactly to a manual section and they are ultra detailed on HOW to perform a move, what the move needs to accomplish, what the risks are and so on. They are a practical show of how to do what the manual says it needs to be done. In WBTS there's also an excessive use of tooltips. Region tooltips, unit tooltips and 2 bars (right and top) of buttons for actions and pages each of which also has a tooltip. That's what i call a good UI. It would be perfect if it was sized better because believe me the information is so massive sometimes you can't see the map, but it's better to have it than not to have it, and it's an easy fix for a patch.

So, basically, EiANW vids are done by someone who focused on showing something but not on TEACHING. You can't start playing with those vids...they are something more like a showcase on a particular situation of the game but they don't teach how to arrive there. They are step 2 or 3 but not step 1 and when this game has 100 steps, they just stay there...at step 3. That is, according to me what must be done.

Wbts doesn't imagine you have any knowledge at all about the civil war or any other civil war game. It's style and rules are unique and the vids (and manual) begin from the ABC. That's what's missing from these vids, Ellis.

Come on, you know what i am talking about. Don't make me repeat it again. Just pick the people in charge of the thing and have them rebuild the manual and do the Vids. [;)]

[pzgndr]

So, basically, EiANW vids are done by someone who focused on showing something but not on TEACHING. You can't start playing with those vids...

I disagree. If you're smart enough to actually play this game, then you should be smart enough to figure it out on your own without being spoon-fed like some ADHD schoolkid. It's more important that the manual be updated to be accurate and show some helpful examples. There is no substitute for actually reviewing a game manual and getting into a game to see for yourself how things work. That's how we used to do it in the old days... and we liked it! [:D]

It took me about two days to figure out the basic game mechanics and game interface when EiANW first came out. And that was with zero experience playing EiA before. It's not that damn hard to start playing this game. Now, learning to play well is another matter entirely, and no short tutorial video is going to TEACH anyone everything they need to know to do that.

[borner]

OK, it's me, Mr. negative again... but we are talking about a program to teach us how to play a broken game..... again, would it not be best to put all the energy into de-bugging this thing, then worry about the AI, instructionals, and such? Then, when the game is truely ready, add improvements? I admit, I pound on Marshall as much or more than most here.. but he is one man trying to work on all this stuff, and I imagine caffine and red bulls only help for so long.
 
 
 
 

[GShock]

There's nothing negative, the game IS complex, and all of these drawbacks were expected. What was not expected was that a game of such complexity was not explained and does not explain as it should to EiA and non-EiA players.

BTW Ellis is not alone. There's a community here. The game won't be broken forever...but if the manual and UI do not improve, fixing it, won't increase much the sales....which ultimately is the top priority for any DEV company.

[Marshall Ellis]

Hey guys:
 
This thing will have some demands placed into it for a while and I'm here for the long haul. I drink 1-2 pots of coffee a day. Sleep is for wimps :-0! There will be time to sleep when I'm dead LOL!
 
BTW: I don't take offense to anything. Everybody has their own bedside manner and I can live with that.
 
 
 

[GShock]

Ellis...the manual, start from the manual [:)]

I've seen they're gonna build tutorials but everything starts from the manual. Video tutorials are surely welcome but don't forget the starting step.

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: borner

OK, it's me, Mr. negative again... but we are talking about a program to teach us how to play a broken game.....

I no longer accept the premise that this game is "broken". It is fully playable as is. There are many end-cases that can trip someone up, but it is no longer broken. IMO

[borner]

It is better, but still in need of a major overhaul on the engine, new tires and maybe a paint job, but at least the car is running now. example, one game I am in, France and the Germans ended stacked together, and France cannot move out on his land phase. So, we are on hold until Marshall can de-bug it. As long as the trend is to get rid of old bugs, without making new ones as the updates come out, it is good progress.

[mrgodo]

yes, as long as it just eliminates all the old bugs... but that isn't how things work. there are a stack of known bugs and a stack of unknown bugs. while whittling away at the stack of unknown bugs, there will be a portion of fixed bugs that will be re-introduced and a portion of unknown bugs that will be revealed as well as new bugs introduced.

people are being charged for this thing. this is not a professional piece of software but someone's attempt to bring a wargamer's dream to reality. when the game can't keep track of where forces are or basic features (like surrendering a garrison) don't work, that makes the game unplayable. just work around them? wait for the developer to fix your save game so you can continue? bogus. the more time i invest in this the more aggravated i get. i want this to work. i don't have time to play and debug it. and no matter how much debugging we do, since the development is single threaded, this game isn't going to be finished anytime soon. marshall, climb back into that pot of coffee of yours and come back when you've really finished this thing.

[borner]

Mr. Godo. I admit you are more wise than I. Just after posting my last entry, yet another game comes to a halt waiting on Marshall to fix a bug.

[GShock]

I wish everyone was comprehensive enough to understand one thing is a boardgame with a rules set, and another is a pc game, where all these rules must be BUILT (not on paper!) in code and brought together, with a working AI. Now, unless u have a team of 20 coders and a lead developer with 20 years experience at least in coding, these results are all to be expected and the more complex the game, the more likely critical bugs will arise.

Having said that, since no such DEV teams exist with wargames (and i suggest you to look at that "masterpiece" called Medieval Total War which benefitted from such a team and you'll see the AI is so poor the modders scripted cheats on the player's money) the choice is simple: either cope and have wargames on PC with all the flaws that depend on the problem i just mentioned or no wargaes and just boardgames.

I guess we're all for the first one and we know it takes patience.

Look at me, i spent the money on a game i never played. I don't even know of the bugs you all mentioned and the games you are playing and have got to be halted due to bugs...in my case, it is because the manual and the interface are very poor and "scared" me away.

Yet, i understand critical bugs come first even if, according to me, the manual and the UI should come even before the very same engine is built.

The difference is...that i am comprehensive and patient but am also aware that even 30-man DEV teams make such mistakes and are affected by such problems. [:)]

Gonna be fun when WiF comes out [;)] [;)] [;)] [;)]

[pzgndr]

in my case, it is because the manual and the interface are very poor and "scared" me away.

You're kidding, yes? The manual and interface may not be perfect, but they should not be used as a lame-ass excuse by those unwilling and/or unable to do some homework and get their hands dirty actually playing the game rather than whining about it in public. That's just pathetic. If y'all don't like the game or have some other nitnoid reason to not bother with it, fine, just move on. Or wait a while until these things get fixed, and they are getting fixed slowly but surely. It's not like this product is the first that failed to meet customers' lofty expectations for perfection, nor will it be the last. There's lots worse than the small price paid for this computer game for entertainment purposes, warts or no. [8|]

[GShock]

I find it comic that dozens of players and professional game reviewers found all the same "lame-ass" excuse. [;)]
Luckily, Ellis is well aware that this is a concrete problem.

[pzgndr]

And I was one of those professional game reviewers.  I was hardly "scared" by the manual or the interface, nor dissuaded from learning and playing the game, even though I had zero experience with the board game.  It may not play "accurately" as far as the original EiA board game rules are concerned, and there are known bugs and other issues with the computer version, but nonetheless the game is by definition playable and has been since Day 1 release. 
 
What I do not find comic is the continual whining and complaining from some folks, rather than a more constructive attitude oriented towards the ultimate goal of getting this game to where it should be.  Despite the negative and unhelpful tone of threads such as this one, I am impressed with the current ongoing resolution of issues and hopeful that we will in fact have an excellent game in our hands sooner or later.  From the v1.04 notes in the bug tracker system, the next update should be really good.  I'm willing to be patient while Marshall works off the rest of the items on the list, which may be many more months down the road.  So what?  We'll get there when we get there.