What's your most efficient strategy for winning the air war as Soviets?

[Spiney Norman]

Looking for tips here.

[Tom1939]

You only have a chance in normal campaign, where the usaaf is active (no chance with wirhack no usaaf).
You cannot hope to do it before 43-44 (depending how the axis defends the reich).
My tactic is based on the excellent range of the yak-9 and the excellence of the LA5FN.
I use hq's with 8 yak9 and 2 american long range fighter bombers (p40 or p39N/Q). I usually can make 2 hq's like this. If your opponent is agressive with his airfield bombings (ready to attack with unescorted he177's) then I use 1 La5FN on cap and 7 yak9's. This hq's stay always out of range of german fighters: that means you can fly airfield attacks with fighter support and the germans can't.
The trick is that you use a lot of La5FN's on one particular frontline to weaken enemy fighters, and then strike one particular german airfield first with fighter bombers (4 strikes with massive fighter support). Then with everything you have. This way you can nuke a german airfield, and have a loss ratio of 2:1 in your favor. I ussually use a hq with 3 yak9's and 7 bombers to finish of the airfield after the defenders are weakened. I also have a hq with 3 yak 9's and 7 ground attacks to bomb the german panzer units supported by the annihilated german hq. After this 4 hq has finished their business there should be no german fighters in the area so there is a free hunt for everey unescorted bomber in range. Basically it sounds good, but:

- A good fw190 unit with high exp will completely dominate the yak's and american fighter bombers if they don't have very high exp (very long tarining)
- Never try to achive permanent air supremacy. If the germans want they *will* have air supremacy in an area with their excellent fighters. Only la7 and yak3 may change this.

[Montenegro]

Originally posted by Spiney Norman
Looking for tips here.

The LA5FN's are deadly, and this plane in conjuction with the Yak-9's make the game a bit more stable for the Soviet side by late '43. It's no secret that the Luftwaffe is literally unstoppable from '41-late'43 in this game version. Some would argue until late '44, but I think if you wage your air war with the idea of bailing out your surviving bombers in the second game turn, hold back the TB's until the winter offensive, and cap the hell out of Goering once your better fighters arrive, you can do damage in this game as a Soviet player. If you make it to winter '43 with Moscow in tact, the sheer numbers game will grind the Luftwaffe down over the long haul.

Montenegro

[davewolf]

Cool avatar, Spiney Norman!

From Europa Universalis II? If yes, which country? (I only have EU I.)

[Spiney Norman]

Originally posted by davewolf
Cool avatar, Spiney Norman!

From Europa Universalis II? If yes, which country? (I only have EU I.)

It is an EU shield, but not for an actual country in the game. It's the shield for my home province in Sweden, Skåne.

Thank's for the good advice Tom and Montenegro, I'll wait eagerly for the La5FNs to appear. Those weren't in the original game, were they? I just recently renewed my interest in this excellent wargame and downloaded it from Matrix a week ago, so my experience and memory of the original game is a bit hazy.

A few more tips needed about upgrading my planes needed though... what's the best way to do that, without getting those devastating dips in production and air-cover?

[davewolf]

Originally posted by Spiney Norman
It is an EU shield, but not for an actual country in the game. It's the shield for my home province in Sweden, Skåne.

South Sweden, I know. (Well, had a look at the map...) Self-made?

[thantis]

Back to the subject at hand....I've rarely had good success at attaining air superiority (or heck, even air pairity) until mid 1944, unless I can get at the German airfields themselves (the HQs) with my armor.

Its easier to destroy them on the ground than try to fight them in the air. The AI does a good job of keeping the HQs with the majority of the aircraft away from the closest tank armies, but if the front is fluid enough (like during a winter offensive), you can put serious hurt on the Luftwaffe.

Another interesting situation, I find I lose air superiority again when I close in on Germany-proper. The OKW & OKH reserves (along with the West Front air forces - especially the ME-410s & ME-110s) play havoc on my air support squadrons.

I once had to allocated every squadron I had on the front lines to penetrate their screens and put the heavy metal on their airfields. I lost almost a thousand aircraft before I was able to go back to full ground support operations. Even then I was being hit by flights of 10 - 20 ME-410s that caused excessive losses to my bomber groups.

[Spiney Norman]

Originally posted by davewolf

South Sweden, I know. (Well, had a look at the map...) Self-made?

No, unfortunately I'm not that artistic.
I think I've seen your nick on the EU forums, are you active there?

thantis: attacking the HQ's on the ground is a good tactic to damage the Luftwaffe, but I often find the german HQ's are just slightly out of my reach or if I do get at them they are stuffed with panzers and I fail to shatter them.

[davewolf]

Originally posted by Spiney Norman
I think I've seen your nick on the EU forums, are you active there?

Not yet, but now that I have EU II...

Someone (ab)uses my nick??? D@mn him!!!

[K62_]

I only thought about this recently and tested it against the computer. But I managed to get full air superiority as early as... November '41.

The main idea is that if you have a pool of 1000+ of some aircraft you get 30 replacements each turn instead of the usual 10; so you lose experience less often.

I converted all of my air production to Yak1. By September, I already had a pool of 1000+ and I started converted some trained fighter groups to Yak1, while maintaining my pool at aver 1000. I used these 200+ strong Yak squadrons @ 60 experience to harass the Germans. I sent them where there were fewer Axis fighters and pulled them back rapidly to repair their damaged planes. They killed quite a lot of bombers and built their EXP up to 80+.

Then, in November, I had enough experienced Yak groups (I kept converting them as soon as they trained to 60+) to keep them in the line all the time. I was also able to send in the bombers (that I also kept training all this time) and raid the Axis airfields. So when the blizzards came I could field plenty of well-experienced, 200+ strong Yak groups, that met with little if any resistance.

Of course, the AI is a very poor opponent and the idea has yet to be tested in a real game.

[Montenegro]

Originally posted by K62
I only thought about this recently and tested it against the computer. But I managed to get full air superiority as early as... November '41.

The main idea is that if you have a pool of 1000+ of some aircraft you get 30 replacements each turn instead of the usual 10; so you lose experience less often.

I converted all of my air production to Yak1. By September, I already had a pool of 1000+ and I started converted some trained fighter groups to Yak1, while maintaining my pool at aver 1000. I used these 200+ strong Yak squadrons @ 60 experience to harass the Germans. I sent them where there were fewer Axis fighters and pulled them back rapidly to repair their damaged planes. They killed quite a lot of bombers and built their EXP up to 80+.

Then, in November, I had enough experienced Yak groups (I kept converting them as soon as they trained to 60+) to keep them in the line all the time. I was also able to send in the bombers (that I also kept training all this time) and raid the Axis airfields. So when the blizzards came I could field plenty of well-experienced, 200+ strong Yak groups, that met with little if any resistance.

Of course, the AI is a very poor opponent and the idea has yet to be tested in a real game.

K62,

We're talking '41 here? You have found some air nirvava against the Luftwaffe, AI or not. I'm probably too much a purist in the production realm, but something has to be tweeked on the Red side in '41-'42 if possible, and the game can allow possibilities.

I am currently in "training" playing the German AI in '42 scenario (I have always played Wermacht). The ground war goeth great. It's Dec '43 and Kharkov will be my next liberated vista with the AI putting up a furious game of cat and mouse defense, particularly in the south with SS panzer corps. My air losses are staggering, but I'll blame this on Stalin. Attaining exp against them is tough. It seems the revolving repair/cap method is the only way with Soviet side. I only currently have air superiority against AGN on their 1 way trip back to Pskov.

I have sympathized little at times with the fellow board members about Soviet weaknesses in '41. All I guess is that if you make it to the first appearance of Jack Frost with Moscow intact, that Soviet armor comes a calling by '43.

Regards,

Montenegro

[Bernard]

Originally posted by Montenegro


K62,

We're talking '41 here? You have found some air nirvava against the Luftwaffe, AI or not. I'm probably too much a purist in the production realm, but something has to be tweeked on the Red side in '41-'42 if possible, and the game can allow possibilities.

IMontenegro

I did about the same against IA with about same results
kept most of y fighters + bombers around lenigrad or deep south.

Kept sending them against farthest german unit, few or no air cover. gets a lot of training for few losses.

however, tried something remotely similar against human ... disaster. but again, i have disastrous games against human, russian or german.

best regards.