Carrier Aircraft

[pccitgo]

Just curious and forgive me if this has been asked before. (I did try a search). Running the tutorial I was surprised that the game allows me to land an F-16 on the Teddy Roosevelt. I was expecting a "Not Capable" message. Would it be difficult for the programmers to add something to aircraft file that must be present before the plane can land or takeoff from a carrier. IRL there are some significant additions to the aircraft structure to allow such ops - tailhook for a start.
Cheers

Peter [X(]

[Anonymous]

Hello,

ORIGINAL: pccitgo

Just curious and forgive me if this has been asked before. (I did try a search). Running the tutorial I was surprised that the game allows me to land an F-16 on the Teddy Roosevelt. I was expecting a "Not Capable" message. Would it be difficult for the programmers to add something to aircraft file that must be present before the plane can land or takeoff from a carrier. IRL there are some significant additions to the aircraft structure to allow such ops - tailhook for a start.
Cheers

Peter [X(]

This ought to be an database issue (error) - of course this shouldn´t work. Which database did you use? The tutorials have been rebuilt for several databases besides the original databases (Standard Database and ANW DB) created by AGSI.

Try the scen in HUD3 ( = Harpoon Users Database version 3) and PDB (Players Database). Are you still able to land the Falcon on the TR?

btw You are using Harpoon 3 ANW 3.9.3?

It is always helpful if you mention your game engine (for example 3.9.3) and database (for example Standard Database).

Happy pooning, hope this helps...

Ralf

[Anonymous]

Hello,

ok, I´ve tested it (Tutorial Scenario 6 "Air Ops") with Game Engine 3.9.3 under four databases:

1. HUD3: Falcon cannot land on carrier TR - ok!
2. ANW DB: Falcon cannot land on carrier TR - ok!
3. Standard Database: Falcon cannot land on carrier TR - ok!
4. Players´s Database (PDB): Falcon can land on carrier TR - bingo!

Thus you got a nice catch; I´m sure Herman Hum will fix that soon.

Regards,
Ralf

[hermanhum]

Actually, this is a deliberate setting for the PlayersDB. All aircraft have been given the ability to land on 'carriers'. It has been set up this way to accommodate a special unit in the database.

In some scenarios there is no place to include an air base. This might be due to the small size of the map, a map only containing water, or a (potentially) very large map. For example, the Falklands war involved a significant British base on Ascension Island. The base was located thousands of miles away from the Falklands, but it was significant enough that it had to be included with scenarios from the battleset. In order to include it, a huge map had to be drawn. Unfortunately, large maps cause the game to run very slowly. Instead, a work-around was implemented. A "simulated land-base" was made in the form of a ship and named "Ascension". This base was then placed on the smaller map and a plane added to it. In this way, the plane can appear within the scenario without actually drawing a map with enclosing the real island.

It was hoped that players would not take advantage of this configuration, but it is definitely possible to land an F-16 on a carrier as it is currently configured. If you have a specific scenario that must prohibit this, let us know and arrangements can be made to accommodate your preferences. It is unrealistic, but it is a work-around for scenario design in hopes of getting more flexibility for scenario writers.

[noxious]

Herman, I must disagree with your workaround : adding a major "bug" to all scenarios for one series to work is a big NO NO.
This should be really fixed.  

[hermanhum]

Understood.

Unfortunately, it isn't just 'one' scenario.  Quite a few have been built using this implementation.  For example, this is one method by which satellites are launched.  If a satellite pass is intended to only travel over water, you need a start and end point located over the water.  So, it's about the only way to get this to happen.

For good or bad, folks have built scenarios with this expectation.  It would be just as bad to 'pull the rug out from under them', IMO.

[noxious]

ORIGINAL: hermanhum

Understood.

For good or bad, folks have built scenarios with this expectation. It would be just as bad to 'pull the rug out from under them', IMO.

Right, that could suck. Hmmm, maybe put something about this in the release notes for PDB ?
As well as any other PDB specific quirks ?
Does this affect the PO/AI ? e.g will the AI start landing land based a/c on carriers, or something else prevents it from doing so ?

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: noxious

Right, that could suck. Hmmm, maybe put something about this in the release notes for PDB ?

That's a fair request. I'll add some design notes under the "Information" window of the next installer.

I can only think of this ability affecting the AI in one small circumstance. If the AI launches a plane from a land base and that land base is subsequently destroyed while the plane is still airborne, the plane might 'bingo' to an aircraft carrier that is not normally supposed to handle it. It could conceivably re-launch from the aircraft carrier. The carrier would have to be somewhat close to the destroyed base for this to occur.

There is a kind of backup to prevent this, too. If the plane happens to land on the carrier, it will not likely have the required ammunition type required to re-arm. Thus, if it lands, in most cases, it won't re-launch.

The probability of a player encountering an AI problem like this in a scenario is likely very low.

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: hermanhum

I can only think of this ability affecting the AI in one small circumstance. If the AI launches a plane from a land base and that land base is subsequently destroyed while the plane is still airborne, the plane might 'bingo' to an aircraft carrier that is not normally supposed to handle it.

On second thought, I do not believe that this will affect ANW. This might occur in the older H3 version of the game, but not likely in ANW.

In H3, a base had to have a special facility like a Hangar or Revetment in order for planes to be allowed to land. The presence of a Runway facility was insufficient for the base to be operational. In ANW, planes can land on a runway directly and runways are indestructible (except for nuclear weapons). Thus, if the hangar/revetment facilities are destroyed in ANW, the plane will still return to the runways on that base. Only if the entire base is nuked out of existence might the problem arise with the AI's land-based planes landing on aircraft carriers.

Therefore, the problem is theoretically possible, but the probability of occurrence is pretty close to insignificance.

[cuthbo2001]

I seem to recall in 3.6 invisible aircraft carriers (bases) were used as a method of generating off axis air attacks rather than having a series of no fly zones which could sometimes be problematic.