World War III players

[Grymme]

I guess we will just have to wait and see if the game is balanced. It would be fun to se if some other people play it. In the changes ive made since the game started i gave the pact 1 more mhz corps. But otherwise i have basicly kept the OOB unchanged.
 
And i definetly still feel that me and Herode2 is in the game. He might have lost some cities in central europe, but he captured Helsinki & Ankara and will prob take back Sofia eventually and take Istanbul.
 
In the meantime i have taken Seul & Mandalaya. Basicly it think the deciding factor will be how fast and in what way we will be able to counter US deployment. Havent seen so much of it, so they must have a lot of unspent resources.
 
Grumpymel: On Canada i agree. On Denmark/North of Germany i just dont know. Like you i want to give USA a little bit bigger roll to play. I want to make sure that it isnt to central or easy for them though, since then the USSR would have to face down the direct impact of NATO & USA combined. In the game we have now they would have the ability to go directly into battle with USSR through Israel north to Turkey. Its a long and bloody road though. I am thinking about your idea though. What impact would it have on the game you think?
 
Herode2: Interesting interesting.. nice to have some reserves.

[Herode_2]

Yep ! Reserves can be useful. BTW, I have been happy this turn to have some reserves... near Vladivostok [:D]

News from the front :

- still defending in Europe : the NATO crushing air superiority (at least a 2:1 ratio + the Fighter II technology) and some supply issues forbids VP to lead any offensive by now. Our troops are pinned.

- Kartoum has been cleaned from yankees. This will allow us to mobilize some formations towards Alexandria.
NB : I have a garrison defending the Suez Canal which doesn't receive any supply, I can't figure why. The Egypt HQ has been granted a full 1000 supply points and has distributed them amongst all his units, except this one... When I activate the supply layer, the Alexandria hex displays on a white semi-transperent background, I don't know what it means. Some other hexes display like this and they also have supply failures. Must be linked but what is the rule ????

- After an artillery preparation and a full land assault, Istanbul is now in our hands. We're cleaning the last NATO troops in Turkey. Next moves shall be to try to regain control of Sofia.

- Talibans withdraw towards Kabul, also circled by the Chinese troops. Here, we had more casualties than the ennemy but this is not much of a surprise, considering the heavy entrenchments talibans have in the mountains.

- Vietnamese airforce helps his Chinese fellows by leading bombing attacks on Singapore. 2 enemy planes destroyed.

- An expeditionnary corps that has landed in the Sikote Mountains at the north of Vladivostok has been intercepted and reduced. Our soldiers found remnants of chewing gums and cans of coca-cola in the mud. These elements evidence the presence of some yankee survivors. The mountains will soon be cleaned up by our local Ecological Brigades. All fundings and supporting actions welcome.

Notes :

- I bought the submarine packs in Barents' sea with the available action cards. At t+1, they didn't receive any supply and have no stock => readiness 60, AP30 making them desperately useless. [:(]

- Ideas about some action cards for VP : considering the fact that during the Cold War, the Varsaw Pact forces were politically backed by Communists in Europe, we could have some Action Cards like
   - Strikes / general strike : cuts the supply and/or production flow
   - Pacifists :  lowers morale on some parts of the front or reduces some production centers (the Pershing / SS20 crisis)

About strikes, buying those cards costs PP and PP are bought via production. This is roughly a trade : production points vs ennemy supply points. But it offers interesting opportunities in that you control when you buy your AC and when you use them ^^

General strikes could be more of a long term investment, like the mutiny level in the Great War from Tom Weber. But unlike the mutiny level, they would have to be bought by VP via Action Cards and could be countered by US/NATO via propaganda Action Cards.

For both sides, we could also have some more sabotages actions :
- destroy bridges/roads/production centers here and there
- lower some entrenchment bonuses for front line units
- kill staff !!
- terrorist actions : lowers morale OR increases it/gives a temporary boost on attack stats (random effect) + same effects than sabotages.

Just ideas on the fly. Should be carefully studied for balance as I am of course mainly inspired by the VP side I am currently playing. It's casual. Also, I have no idea of how these cards/events could be implemented.

[Grymme]

A day that will live in Infamy: of sorts.
 
Strenghtened by maoist guerillas the PDRC assaults the Pacific countries. They pledge support. After heavy losses Manilla is assaulted. Lost 1 entire corps. Troops landed on Borneo. Other troops move down malaysian peninsula. (have noticed one thing here. Pacific countries have 3 resources & 1 city. Since the city might often be conquered on t1 the rest is not so usefull for NATO, in new scenario i have made some of the resources citys instead).
 
Also a naval strike on Taipei killed 1 american missile cruiser and some aircraft for little losses for the PDRC.
 
Herode2: Will look up the supply issues. Maybe corps is HQ by some allied HQ with the same colour or wrong USSR HQ. I have 2 weak forces in afghanistan to attack. If you want i will withdraw. Basicly i am keeping them there as garrisson to deprive him of manouveringroom. Interesting that the US have gone into the game in the fareast.
 
As for the actioncard suggestions. Good ones. I have implemented a little of your ideas in the new scenario. I have 1 NATO morale boost card and 1 USSR sabotage action card. these are 1time actioncards though. I think the kind of mechanizm you describe is great. I am not sure that i am a good enough programmer to implement it though. If someone who is good enough programmer could help me with it its a given. Maybe an actioncard that wanders from side to side. (ie when you spend it you dont get a new one but your opponent gets one. When he spends his you get one).
 
What do you guys think about the other new units i have implemented? In the projects thread. USS Iowa, AWACS and T039 Yuan SSGs?

[Grymme]

Hi
 
The suez canal hex is a "strait"landscape type. Dont really know what this effect might have. What other hexes show the same?
 
I checked the editor and the submarines deployed should have full supply (2400 supply points) and full readiness. They shouldnt have theese inhibitions. Maybe NATO attacked them. I cant find any other explanation. Thanks for trying the event.

[GrumpyMel]

AWACS doesn't sound so usefull for NATO, besides I always thought they were more of a US plane.
 
How about Reservest Infantry for NATO? Basicaly cheap infantry that has little to no offensive power but reasonable defense. Would help alot in garrisoning cities against assualt.... will give NATO a little more staying power in case things go badly for them...but not help as much if they actualy get the upper hand.

[Grymme]

Actually i kind of got off on the reservist idea. I added them, but for European cities (special people). This means all NATO starting territory, US bases in Europe and also Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Chech Republic, The baltic states & Leningrad.
 
In this way both NATO & USSR can build them (and to some extent USA).
 
I agree that AWACS was more of a US thing. Problem with this scenario is that basicly all cool things were developed by USA in the 80ths. I still want all sides to have some interesting units so i kind of made a little bit violence on history and made them European (although US & USSR also get some). I think you will find them usefull when you try. They make full recon in a 4 hex radius. So if you want to make strategic bombardment or paratroop in you will be able to follow enemy movement close.

[Grymme]

Hey guys. I uploaded a new version (the first in a while) to the scenario bank. Check it out.

For Grumpy. Here is a picture of AWACS recon on turn 1. Wouldnt you like recon like this?? I atleast think its cool, also its interesting with some units who are not just for fighting.

[GrumpyMel]

NATO Turn 9 Done and sent to PACT.
 
 
The Chi-coms have attacked the peacefull nations of the Pacific. These nations have called out to NATO support and we will answer them as best we can. The initial attack saw the loss of Manilla to Chinese human wave attacks coming ashore from the beaches. Casualties were heavy but the Chinese kept coming till it was done. China also landed heavy forces in Northern Borneo and on the Maylay Peninsula. NATO calls out to the US for assistance in defending the Pacific.
 
In Central Europe, PACT and NATO forces trade artillery bombardments and NATO warplanes continue to hammer PACT positions across the Vistula doing heavy damage. The Soviet airforce remains largely grounded. PACT Heavy armor of the 314th Corps makes a probing attack toward Hungary but is stopped cold by NATO's 156th Mechanized. 2nd Armies, 10th Armored stages a counter-attack and with close air support, completely destroys the PACT formation. No orther ground attacks occur in the Center as the opposing forces manuver for better position.
 
In the South, Istanbul is assaulted and the beleagured garrison capitualtes. Turkey is now firmly in the hands of the enemy. Elsewhere NATO and PACT continue to manuver for position in the Balkans.

[GrumpyMel]

Grymme,
 
You should think about starting a 2nd game with all your additions. So you could have 2 groups of testers going. I might even have time in my schedule to play, as I am really enjoying the scenerio!
 

[Herode_2]

The AWACS things look cool [:)] I also love the reservist option. It's realistic.
This gives me another idea  : what about camouflage ?

Either as specialized units giving a camouflage value to an hex or a range of hexes or as an action card ?
Camouflage value <==> lowering the recon value of ennemies/increasing the stealth value od friendly units, maybe only some kinds of firendly units : tranks, inf & so on depending on the unit/AC you've bought

Is there any way to code this with the current editor ?

[Grymme]

Like the idea about using camouflage in some way. Dont know how to program it, havent found the button to do it. But at least some units could have better hide values. Like special forces infantry/partisans.
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Good that you like the things ive made. I just hope that the reserve infantry doesnt bog down the war to much and give it a WWI feeling. But well see.

[Grymme]

Turn sent to USA
&nbsp;
Very interesting turn for the Chinese. Highlights
&nbsp;
- US heavy armoured units&nbsp;lands in Bangkok.
- Chinese navy captures a huge transport fleet without escort in the waters outside Malaysia. 11 full transports sunk.
- The mightly chinese Naval airforce strikes at some&nbsp;Frigates outside japan and sink them,
- The not so mightly chinese army is forced to retreat in Afghanistan without enemy contact. Supply problems listed as reason.
- In Burmese/thai border little progress is made, also supply issues.
- The Burmese road betwen China & Burma is close to completion.
- An air strike on Taiwan kills of half the airforce with negible losses for our airforce.
- Oilfields on the northern part of Borneo is captured by armour speeding through the jungle.
- Paratroopers landed on Celebres islands.

[GrumpyMel]

NATO Turn 10 done and sent to Warsaw Pact
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
- Major Naval activity this month. The Turkish Navy, trapped in the Bosporus is easly destroyed by the Soviet Black Sea Fleet. However the Soviets appear to have been prevented from exiting the straight by an Israeli Naval Blockade. At the same time, the Soviet Arctic Fleet sortied and with the assistance of 2 Pact sub groups sank the Norwegian Submarine picket. However the Royal Navy was quick to respond to this threat and with the assistance of Land Based Air from Norway virtualy anhilated the entire Arctic Fleet (save for 1 badly damaged carrier) and both supporting submarine groups at almost no loss to itself.
&nbsp;
- In Asia, Brunai has fallen to Chinese invaders and the rest of Micronesia braces fearfully for the Chicom onslaught.
&nbsp;
- In Central and Southern Europe, significant air battles take place as the PACT Airforce once again takes to the skies. NATO fighters and PACT Interceptors dogfight and though some NATO losses are recorded, the PACT air force clearly gets the worst of it. NATO warplanes continue to do heavy damage to PACT ground forces across the Vistula, while PACT ground attack craft score little damage in return.
&nbsp;
- In Southern Europe, NATO's 3rd Armored, 86th Mechanized and 87th Infantry smash PACT formations along the road to Bucharest, doing heavy damage to the enemy and slowly pushing along the road. Other elements of NATO's 2nd Army push into the Carparthians.
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- Central Europe see's little ground activity save for 1 minor skirmish and some exchanges of Artillery fire.
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&nbsp;
Total Losses for Turn = 37 Rifle
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3 Scout
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Mortar
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Machinegun
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2 Fighter
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Fighter II
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Carrier Air
&nbsp;
Total Kills for Turn = 126 Rifle
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 9 Scout
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 25 Machinegun
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 7 AT Infantry
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Mortar
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Partisan
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 6 Flak
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4 Long Range Artillery
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Halftrack
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 6 Fighters
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5 Carrier Air
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 9 Submarine
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Transport Ship
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 DDG Destroyer
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Cruiser
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Frigate
&nbsp;

[Grymme]

Grumpy: hmm.. it seems something is astrange in the land of Denmark. In your summary you say turkish fleet was destroyed, yet no naval units on your losslist for the turn? or was it destroyed on soviet turn?
&nbsp;
I guess it will be difficult defending pacific countries without production cities Have changed this in the updated scenario.

[Herode_2]

ORIGINAL: GrumpyMel
At the same time, the Soviet Arctic Fleet sortied and with the assistance of 2 Pact sub groups sank the Norwegian Submarine picket. However the Royal Navy was quick to respond to this threat and with the assistance of Land Based Air from Norway virtualy anhilated the entire Arctic Fleet (save for 1 badly damaged carrier) and both supporting submarine groups at almost no loss to itself.

Ha, too bad. I was trying to check the supply issue for the submarine packs : I reaffected them to the Artic HQ (they were linked to St Petersburg, most probably the reason why they could not get any supply) and I was clearing the supply line. I should have warned you to wait one turn before your attack, my bad [8|]

ORIGINAL: Grymme
hmm.. it seems something is astrange in the land of Denmark. In your summary you say turkish fleet was destroyed, yet no naval units on your losslist for the turn? or was it destroyed on soviet turn?

Yep, this occured during the Pact's turn

[GrumpyMel]

Herode2,
&nbsp;
They only would have resupplied if you had them in port, not the open sea. You can do resupply at sea by using naval transport capacity in an HQ in a port city and transfering supplies to the fleet manualy. That works, but it is subject to the same intercept issues as any other naval transfer.

[Grymme]

Herode2: Nice that you are trying out the features. It seems at any case that the Submarine feature&nbsp;might be a pretty weak option for the USSR. It will still be a threat in being though. Forcing atleast NATO to patrol the are and keep fleets nearby.
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Herode2: Have you tried out the Spetznaz/Long range transport. You know that you can paradrop in the cities in this scenario. And the transports can reach spain from Poland Also could be used for airtransport to reinforce arab nations from Caucasus...
&nbsp;
Any interesting way of strenghtening the USSR subfeature.. dont want the USA/NATO to have a complete monopoly on the sea.

[GrumpyMel]

Well,
&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The main reason that his subs haven't played more of a role (I think).... is that I'm not really transporting/transfering much across water. I'm not sure how much of this the US is doing, but I would gather not much in the Atlantic as he is not heavly involved in the European Theatre. So when Herode2 has tried to make use of his sub packs, he's brought them in really close to land...either to help&nbsp;block narrow sea lanes (i.e the Arctic)&nbsp;or disrupt small naval transfers between England/Scandinavia and the Continent. Inevitably these packs get spotted.... and when they are, they are easly within range of my land based Naval Air or my main fleet.... and get nailed hard.
&nbsp;
The real place for sub packs to shine is out in the open sea where they can hide, disrupt supply/cargo shipments and lay in wait to jump on passing transports. However, since NATO isn't actualy shipping much of anything over the open sea (and not sure how much the US is)... there is not much for the PACT to do out there with his subs. I imagine if the US was making a major commitment to Europe, they would be EXTREMELY usefull. Since that hasn't really happaned yet in this particular game....I think that's why the Soviet subs are seeming somewhat ineffective so far.
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I think the PACT's action cards could be pretty usefull under the right conditions....and those conditions certainly could happen in this Scenerio.... but the way this particular game has played out so far.... they probably aren't quite as relavent.

[Grymme]

Grumpy: I think you have spotted a major problem with subs overall in the game. The counters are huge compared to real life. In real life submarines should have a decent chance at both escaping out to the atlantic and of operating in europe. In the game its almost impossible since the sealanes are so narrow. I do not have the sollution to the problem though. USSR really have a slim chance of bringing a navy to bear in the european theater. What i wanted to accomplish with the USSR Subplacement cards was to allow the USSR to infiltrate the atlantic ocean. But possibly i should have placed them a little further distanced from the British isles.
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As for this game i happen to know where a major part of the US transport ships are -&nbsp;at the bottom of the sea after 11 of them being sunk in the bay of thailand

[Widell]

Grymme - You may want to consider the USSR sub packs as well as the other sides to be at sea and on battle stations already at the start of the scenario. In case of conflict like this, I would assume subs to be despatched to their initial locations far ahead of actual hostilities starting.