British Naval Strategy Questions

[FrankHunter]

it will spend those turns in

Just to correct myself, I shouldn't use the term "turns" when referring to phases/rounds.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Don't put your ASW and shipping squadrons into the Atlantic on the first turn. Instead put your capital ships and CAs into the North Sea which will allow you to inflict damage on the German navy as they move through the North Sea and again when they return to port. Depending on how those battles go will determine how safe it is to later deploy your shipping. Bringing the French fleet into the Atlantic to deal with whatever part of the German fleet reaches the Atlantic would also be a good idea since the Austrian and Ottoman navies won't be deployed on the first turn so the French fleet is not immediately needed in the Med. However, the Brits and French do have to set aside a few squadrons to seal the Western Med on turn 2.

Good Idea. I did put my fleet into the North Sea but I made the mistake of also putting my transports and ASW into the Atlantic. The problem is that the High Seas Fleet sailed right past the Grand Fleet, except that it did engage my "smaller" grouping of 1 DN and 1BC which they pulverized. If I had put my French Fleet into the Atlantic it too would have been outnumbered and badly mauled by the High Seas Fleet. Also what makes you so sure the Austrian Fleet won't sail the first turn, it does have 4 Naval Activation points. If it moves it into the West Med it could destroy English shipping in the East Med on its way through and then French shipping in the East Med.

Still your idea is a good one, perhaps I just got unlucky not intercepting the HSF with my main force. OF course the flip side is that the Gerans may not have moved at all. In which case the British will have foregone their resources and food for nothing. As I said it becomes a guessing game, not that this is a bad thing, it makes the game fun. But, I still jst don't think it was historically possible for the HSF to sail past the GF enmasse.

As you can tell by my other post I still don't understand how Naval Interdiction works. If the English DNs move from Scapa Flow to the North Sea does this mean they get 3 Naval Search and Combat phases? If so and a German Fleet is moving from Wilhelmshaven to the North Atlantic does the English Fleet in the Nort Sea get 3 chances to intercept the German Fleet or just 1 (because the German Fleet is only traversing the North Sea).

If the English Fleet does intercept the German Fleet on it's first attempt (assuming it gets more than one search attempt) does that automatically mean there will be 3 rounds of combat, or does it have to search successfully again in the next phase?

Or do I not understand this at all?

Do fleets get to "Search" in each seazone they move through or just in their final destination sea zone?

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Okay, how its supposed to work is if you use a transport on amphib orders to move a unit across a sea area in impulse 1 that transport will not be available again till the next strategic turn, not just the next impulse.

If a single transport in a sea area can transport multiple units (1 per impulse) than that's wrong whether it appears in a solitaire, PBEM or hotseat game.

Ok, I thought that in a pbem game I was able to use a single transport to ship more than 1 unit in multiple impulses. But I could very well be mistaken. I'll have to pay more attention next time.

[FrankHunter]

The problem is that the High Seas Fleet sailed right past the Grand Fleet, except that it did engage my "smaller" grouping of 1 DN and 1BC which they pulverized.

How many CAs did you have in the North Sea?

If I had put my French Fleet into the Atlantic it too would have been outnumbered and badly mauled by the High Seas Fleet.

Not necessarily, because the German fleet might not be able to bring all of its guns to bear. The search rating for the Atlantic is much lower than for the North Sea. So its harder to find enemy squadrons. The French could find German ships equal or less than their own while at the same its unlikely the Germans would all find the French.

Also what makes you so sure the Austrian Fleet won't sail the first turn, it does have 4 Naval Activation points.

I suppose it could but without the Turks in the game that seems pretty risky as the fleet would be prone to being destroyed by a combined France=British fleet in the E.Mad.

If it moves it into the West Med it could destroy English shipping in the East Med on its way through and then French shipping in the East Med.

I wouldn't risk your shipping on the first turn. Wait until the 2nd turn and you know what you can protect and what you can't.

As you can tell by my other post I still don't understand how Naval Interdiction works. If the English DNs move from Scapa Flow to the North Sea does this mean they get 3 Naval Search and Combat phases?

Yes

If so and a German Fleet is moving from Wilhelmshaven to the North Atlantic does the English Fleet in the Nort Sea get 3 chances to intercept the German Fleet or just 1 (because the German Fleet is only traversing the North Sea).

Just the one

If the English Fleet does intercept the German Fleet on it's first attempt (assuming it gets more than one search attempt) does that automatically mean there will be 3 rounds of combat, or does it have to search successfully again in the next phase?

It has to search again the next phase

Do fleets get to "Search" in each seazone they move through or just in their final destination sea zone?

Each one they move through

[geoffreyg]

Would it be possible to confirm the search rating of the various ship types - I had not appreciated that CA's were so important for this. Many thanks.

[FrankHunter]

Let's say you had 4 British DN's in the North Sea in winter searching for 2 German BCs and 2 CAs. They would have a base search rating of 20%. But the BCs and CA's have a speed advantage of 20% so the final rating is 0% chance.

Now add 4 British CA's to the mix. They negate the speed advantage plus add 10% each. So the new search rating would be 60%. Or 70% in the summer.

[ulver]

This game just keeps revealing new deeps. It is even better then I imagined. It is a shame these things are not better documented. I suspects lots of players never gets to truly appreciate the nuances of the design.

Any fans out there with time on their hands to write the definitive manual?

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: ulver

Any fans out there with time on their hands to write the definitive manual?

I don't know about "definitive", but once I have this game figured out and have a lot more experience I do intend to post something that expands on the Manual. But I am still pretty much a novice at this game so don't hold your breath. If someone else wants to write one in the meantime I certainly won't be upset.

[Snowbart1943]

A manual that disclosed all the little secrtes we crave would be most desirable! 
 
Who could write this other than Mr. Hunter himself, as who else knows these precious secrets? 

[FrankHunter]

Who could write this other than Mr. Hunter himself, as who else knows these precious secrets?

Unfortunately that's true, something like a downloadable PDF "strategy book" with the numbers and formulas behind the words of the rulebook? The thing is, I'm not very good at foreseeing what people would want to know as my rulebook demonstrates.

[geoffreyg]

Unfortunately I lack the relevant IT skills but having a WIKI would be great as we could all add our little bit in. I would be very happy to share my excel spreadsheet where I have been accumulating info over the last few months.

[FrankHunter]

A wiki? I'd be happy to provide any information in plain english but its easier for me to respond to a query than it is to foresee what will be asked.

[OrvalB]

I'm still fooling around with this sucker, but I do think a basic strategy guide would be a very good idea. Things like, "don't launch offensives lightly! Conserve those insanely expensive HQ points!" and some indication that the National screen is in fact the single most important window and you have to agonize over it after the opening like nothing else, because it is pretty much the most important thing in the game. Some thinking around builds would be interesting too, for instance I still haven't figured out when or why or how much to build siege guns, or what the trade-offs are.

[Snowbart1943]

Perhaps is lew of an actual strategy book that may or may not be created, we should just start a thread where everyone could post tips?
 
OrvalB, I would only have a few Siege guns, but buy lots of reg arty.  Siege guns ONLY reduce fort levels, so if there is nothing to reduce, they are useless. 

[Mike Dubost]

ORIGINAL: Snowbart1943

Perhaps is lew of an actual strategy book that may or may not be created, we should just start a thread where everyone could post tips?

OrvalB, I would only have a few Siege guns, but buy lots of reg arty.  Siege guns ONLY reduce fort levels, so if there is nothing to reduce, they are useless. 

I would add that it is better to give replacements for existing units to keep them alive than to buy new units. I think I am a patch behind, but in the version I have, the replaced units are 1 level of quality lower (e.g., the 1st Tank unit for the Germans came back as a C quality when the new 2nd Tank unit was a B quality due to tech level increase), and brand new corps are low quality too (I think C or D for the Germans).

[EdinHouston]

I believe that buying siege guns is very dependent on the situation, and in particular, which directions the Germans attack in Aug 1914.

Russia - If the Germans focus on France, then it makes very good sense for the Russians to buy at least 1 and probably 2 siege guns in order to take the German and/or Austrian border forts. Without siege guns, those forts are very costly to take if reasonably defended, but with siege guns, they fall pretty quickly. If Germany attacks Russia first, then the last thing Russia wants to do is buy siege guns, as you will be hanging on for dear life deep inside Russia.

UK/France - I see only two uses here. The main one would be taking the two Austrian forts along the Italian frontier, after Italy enters the war. Italy enters the war in mid 1915 usually, which is exactly when a siege gun purchased in Sept 1914 would arrive. But if Germany is attacking France first, you probably have bigger concerns than attacking AH through Italy. A second possibility would be if the Germans attack Russia first, you might want the siege guns to take Metz and the other German border fort, and possibly Liege if you decide to attack thru Belgium. If I saw Germany attacking Russia in Aug 1914, I would be sure to buy a couple siege guns in Sept 1914 for use in Italy or against Germany.

Germany/AH - since they start with two siege guns, its hard for me to see why they would want more. Regular artillery would seem a better buy.

[BK6583]

Well I would certainly be downright ecstatic if a strategy guide or even a thread dedicated to tips and tactics would be created. This game cries out for something like that as its complexities are deceivingly large - as is the learning curve. I agree about the National screen - brother I could use some advice there. Playing Germany against the AI, I finally learned enough to get France to surrender Jul 1915. However, I failed to invest in Diplomatic points to use on the USA where the Entente apparently used them frequently - result - the bar for the USA is completely black. I guess that means the USA is coming in real soon - in 1915 no less. I discovered a post buried in this forum where there was a tip that said Germany needs to spend a Diplomatic point on the USA from turn one onwards. I could have used that advice earlier. I still could use advice about what Germany really needs to acquire in that National screen in those important early turns with a France first strategy - everything seems to be a priority but those purchase points seem way too inadequate. What do you do with the German navy? What about subs? Purchase every German arty unit available early on or spread it out? How many raw materials should be transfered to Germany? I didn't know that raw materials sent to Germany cost German rail points -after maxing this out one turn I discovered German rail was zero! So sorry for the long post but this game generates a very long list of questions every time I play it and I'd love to read about some important lessons learned and tips rather than discover them myself.

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Let's say you had 4 British DN's in the North Sea in winter searching for 2 German BCs and 2 CAs. They would have a base search rating of 20%. But the BCs and CA's have a speed advantage of 20% so the final rating is 0% chance.

Now add 4 British CA's to the mix. They negate the speed advantage plus add 10% each. So the new search rating would be 60%. Or 70% in the summer.

Nice to know Frank.

I think a most useful information for naval strategy would be to get the search number for the different sea areas and how weather influence on that as well as ship type and mission type?

This together would give playersthe tool to prepare their naval campaigns in support of or independent of land campaigns and reward the planning player.

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

A wiki? I'd be happy to provide any information in plain english but its easier for me to respond to a query than it is to foresee what will be asked.

Open a post to members on the forum in order to get them to ask questions (maybe in the topic box?). Interested and capable players could then make your answers sticky in wiki [;)]

Strategy input could be put directly into wiki.