LBA problem

cato13 · Post by **cato13** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:30 pm

for the 2nd turn in a row my LBA units have failed to launch against a CV force whos planes have no such problem. ive read through the checklist on the must see threads but none of them seem to apply to my situation.

has anyone else had similar problems?

bradfordkay · Post by **bradfordkay** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:34 pm

Hard to develop any ideas without further information. How about showing us screenshots of the base and the LBA units that aren't launching? 

Feinder · Post by **Feinder** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:37 pm

You probably need more escorts.
 
-F-

khyberbill · Post by **khyberbill** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:44 pm

When I play as allies, I have this problem. It is only solved, at least in my games, with lots and lots of escorts. And the escorts seem to need to be above 60 in exp and they have to have the legs to reach the CV's. Aggressive leaders help too. B-17's flying at 30000 feet will sometimes take off on their own. They wont hit anything but they will show the flag of freedom. Frankly, when I play as Japan, I don't worry about LBA against strong CV TF's until P-38's show up in force.

cato13 · Post by **cato13** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:45 pm

ok i have 4 groups of hudsons based at a level 5 airbase.  supply exceeds requirments 10 times over. morale is high.
 
do all bomber attacks need a set amount of escort as i just cant see what else it could be

cato13 · Post by **cato13** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:03 pm

it just seemd crazy that bombers wont take of without escorts.  in ww2 in the air war over europe b17's flew for many months without escort.
 
if i want bombers to fly without escort then thats my call as commander, the AI shouldnt have any sway on this in my opinion.  what the point of havin LBA when they wont sortie?

Feinder · Post by **Feinder** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:06 pm

Normally, you need at least 1 escort for every 3 CAP.
 
Granted, you don't actually know how much CAP there is, but stack a couple fighter squadrons (with sufficient range), set as escorts, and you'll probably launch.
 
Note that DBs, TBs usually can launch without escorts against CAP.  Altho tends to be unhealthy for them.
 
4e bombers are also able to launch without escorts.  I don't think they ignore the need for escorts, but they've got a fair shot of going by themselves.
 
-F-

Shark7 · Post by **Shark7** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:46 am

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

When I play as allies, I have this problem. It is only solved, at least in my games, with lots and lots of escorts. And the escorts seem to need to be above 60 in exp and they have to have the legs to reach the CV's. Aggressive leaders help too. B-17's flying at 30000 feet will sometimes take off on their own. They wont hit anything but they will show the flag of freedom. Frankly, when I play as Japan, I don't worry about LBA against strong CV TF's until P-38's show up in force.

I used to not worry about LBA either till the AI launched a strike with a total of 16 A/C from Kendari, the 4 B-17s got through and 1 laid a 500 lbs egg on Shoho. This was through a cap of over 100 Zeros and Claudes. It was the 1 in a million strike no doubt, but strange things can happen. [X(]

Yamato hugger · Post by **Yamato hugger** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:17 am

Could also be you have the naval search set to 100%. If they were on naval search before you changed them to naval attack and didnt change the search percentage, setting it to naval attack does not change this value.

cato13 · Post by **cato13** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:13 am

ok im gettin reall p****d of with these LBA noy flyin.  im a pbem game and ive had surface TF's sittin just a few hexes from noumea for 3 turns (2 days turns) and my planes just wont fly.  it cant be cos if escort cos i set a squadron of 20 p-40's to fly 100% escort and still the bombers wont fly.
 
what would be great would be for the game to tell me why they aint flyin!  is there anyone who can try n clear this up for me?
 
how do i take a screenshot in game so i can post it?

saj42 · Post by **saj42** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:30 am

ORIGINAL: tonedog

ok im gettin reall p****d of with these LBA noy flyin. im a pbem game and ive had surface TF's sittin just a few hexes from noumea for 3 turns (2 days turns) and my planes just wont fly. it cant be cos if escort cos i set a squadron of 20 p-40's to fly 100% escort and still the bombers wont fly.

what would be great would be for the game to tell me why they aint flyin! is there anyone who can try n clear this up for me?

how do i take a screenshot in game so i can post it?

You say you have set 100% escort - is that what shows on the unit screen - the figures 100%???

If you have a squadron set to escort and a figure of say 60% showing this means 60% are flying CAP over the base and 40% are available for escorting strikes out to the range they are set too. For the fighters to escort set sufficient range to reach the target TF and CAP percentage low or zero.

p.s. sorry if you already know this but the wording in your post rang alarm bells .....

cato13 · Post by **cato13** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:51 am

sorry if i misworded it but yeah, i have the fighters set to escort and the cap level set at 0%.
 
can someone confirm if the problem is indeed that i dont have enough fighters flyin escort? 
if this rule is the cos then its one of the dumbest rules ive ever heard of in wargame.
 
there are numerous examples of bombers flyin offensive missions is ww2, the battle of britain and the strategic bombing campaign of germany sping to mind!  
 
it should be be my choice as CIC when bombers fly and dont fly not some silly rule about escorts.

Yamato hugger · Post by **Yamato hugger** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:39 pm

Whats the range to target and the range of your fighters?

How many fighters are at the base?

What is the damage level of the base?

What is the weather in the area?

Without VERY detailed info, some questions just cant be answered.

cato13 · Post by **cato13** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:26 pm

the base is undamaged and my opponent has been lauching air strikes from his carriers for the last 3 turns now. 
on the last turn a TF was spotted 3 hexes away and the bombers still refused to launch.  the TF is still there now but why should it worry eh,  my bombers have went on strike!!
 
ive looked at all the rules regarding why they wont fly and the only one which is could be looks to be the dumb lack of escort rule.
 
in a game thats all about capturing/holding air bases im beginnin to wonder whats the point.  if the reason why the bombers wont fly is because the escorts wont fly then that sucks bigtime.
 
 
 

Mynok · Post by **Mynok** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:20 pm

Aggressive leaders help. Passive leaders hurt. Is your morale high or low? They have to pass several morale checks in order to fly.

Dili · Post by **Dili** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:55 pm

Do you have an air HQ? how is the morale?

cato13 · Post by **cato13** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:50 pm

ok all units have morale of 99 and no fatigue.  there is an air hq and a regular hq at the base.  the commanders for the bomber units vary from passive to aggressive but i cant change any cos for some reason it says my political points are -73?
 
so r u guys sayin that its not the dumb escort rule thats the problem but something else?  what the official word on this, is there someone i can send the save game file to?
 
ive been enjoyin my pbem game up till now, there have been highs and lows.  i can accept losin carriers and other battles but im findin this hard to take to be honest.
 
the thing thats killin it for me is what the point in capturing/holding air bases only to have the bombers refuse to fly for several turns for some unknown reason when my opponent can fly bombers outa rabaul and down to guadalcanal without an escort in sight?
 
if theres logic reason to this problem im failin to see it.

Oldguard1970 · Post by **Oldguard1970** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:55 pm

Hi Tonedog,
 
All of us have had planned strikes that do not fly.  The normal causes have all been provided in this thread. (Weather, morale, escorts, leadership, range, settings, base condition, sightings, etc.)  Based on your replies, I would have expected your boys to take off. 
 
I can think of one area that merits additional attention.  As Feinder said, most LBA will not attack if the CAP is greater than three times the number of escorts.  You assigned 20 P40's to escort. If all of them got into the air, then a 60+ CAP would be enough to cause the strike to abort.  (I think you can tell if the bombers at least got airborne by checking to see if any mission numbers increased among the pilots in your bomber squadrons.)

pompack · Post by **pompack** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:26 pm

In one of my games I have over 70 4E bombers within range of a base with multiple TFs detected in the hex and adjacent hexes. All have good leaders, they have high experience and they have not attacked for the last 12 turns (at least) because there are over 40 Zeros there and the base is outside the range of my escorts. Now I can get them to attack the base (at least in good weather) and that is the way I know about all those Zeros. Why they attack the base and not the TFs is the mystery. In another part of the map I have 7 4E bombers with pretty much the same stats and situations; this group consistently ignores TFs in the open sea and attacks TFs either in or adjacent to a base with at least 10 Zeros. The only way I can stop their suicidal attacks is to reduce the range since they will attack about one turn in three otherwise. Go figure [&:]

Mynok · Post by **Mynok** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:10 am

Bottom line: it isn't a science.

What kind of bombers are these BTW?

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