China attack problem

[rader]

Hey guys,

My annoyingly good opponent has used the Chinese to kick my Japanese butt back from Wuhan and taken and fortified Chengting I think it is called. This is in April 1942, so still pretty early in the game. I've brought up as many Japanese troops as he has now, and we both have assault values around 6000. I'm bombing his airfield there a lot so he can't build forts but somehow he still managed to get it up to level 4.

Thing is, every time I attack, my modified assault value is around 1/8th of the baseline level, or around 2000 or less. My guys all seem to have enough supplies; at least they all have their requirements when I order the attack. Any reason why their assault value could be so damned low? They don't even seem to bombard very well, doing only a couple hundred casualties with huge forces on either side. I just can't seem to beat the Chinese in a picthed battle, and this is in a clear hex... what the heck could be going on?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rader

[Mynok]

Disruption levels are high I'd bet.

[rader]

No, disruption is low. I'm waiting many turns between attacks. About 5 bombardments and then deliberate; repeat. The only thing I can think of is that they start with enough supplies, but there aren't enough in reserve nearby to actually supply the attack - but if they start with enough, shouldn't that be sufficient?

And I seem to have plenty of supplies in China overall- just not where I want them. Shanghai is stockpiling 50k+, but they don't want to move them to the front for some reason, despite the fact that I have tons of troops and HQs there.

[Yamato hugger]

Well you arent going to do much with a frontal assault. Send a few units around him to cut off the supplies.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: rader

No, disruption is low. I'm waiting many turns between attacks. About 5 bombardments and then deliberate; repeat. The only thing I can think of is that they start with enough supplies, but there aren't enough in reserve nearby to actually supply the attack - but if they start with enough, shouldn't that be sufficient?

And I seem to have plenty of supplies in China overall- just not where I want them. Shanghai is stockpiling 50k+, but they don't want to move them to the front for some reason, despite the fact that I have tons of troops and HQs there.

Urban hex?

[rader]

No, clear hex, and it's not really his assault value that's a problem - it's mine.

I'm also trying to go around the flanks to cut them off, but he seems to be handing me my butt there too. Basically, seems like China is kicking Japan's butt in a pitched battle in the open in early 1942. Sure didn't think that would happen!

[Oldguard1970]

I am playing the allies in stock.  It is early '42.  I can stall a Japanese attack if I can match his nominal AV strength.
 
He wins by using engineers to knock down my forts, by bringing in additional AV, and by taking advantage of the thin supply stiuation for the allies in China. 
 
You report having trouble cutting off the base.  I'd say you have to bring in enough force to allow the encircling forces to succeed. 
 
The bottom line is that you need to have more forces.  That means you have to economize elsewhere if you really want to win this fight.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: rader

No, clear hex, and it's not really his assault value that's a problem - it's mine.

I'm also trying to go around the flanks to cut them off, but he seems to be handing me my butt there too. Basically, seems like China is kicking Japan's butt in a pitched battle in the open in early 1942. Sure didn't think that would happen!

Neither did I, but it did.

[engineer]

Fatigue may play a role, too.  I think you get stuck in the 30's unless things are really quiet or you pull back to a base with enough support to get to the fully rested 0 disruption/5 fatigue level. I can't recall the map, are you assaulting across a river hexside? However, the fort is the big problem.  That is a big part of the derater. I don't know that you can stack enough troops to attack and get close enough to 1:1 that the engineer regiments that are in your attack will reduce his fortifications even though the attack resolves to 0:1.  It's a bloody way to reduce a position but I've used it before. The advice about surrounding Chengting sounds good to me.  Drop your AV to about 70% of the Chinese garrison, that will prevent him from attacking you at better than 0:1 and use the rest to flank him. 
 
The first few times I played or started WitP I was working on the Naval/Air campaign, but after I got into it and started studying the land system and China it was an eye-opener for meabout how important those few hexes from Nanchang-Wuhan-Hengchow-Changsha are.  If you can control that then you have interior lines for the center of China.  The game starts with it split, but if you want to have an aggressive China campaign each side needs to try and seize that quadrangle as soon as possible. 

[rader]

It's Nanchang I'm stuck at, not Chengting.

[engineer]

Uggh, you're screwed.  If you flank him to the right you run right into Wuhan and if you flank him to the left you run into Changsha.  Either way, you're marching through open terrain at like 5 miles a day while he can shift troops on roads or rail roads to block your flank attacks.  If you mount a wide flanking attack from the north you run into Wuhan and wide flanking attack from the south has to come up from Canton through Hengchow and with Wuchow and Kweilin on the flank of your axis of advance. 

The China Expeditionary Army is short on HQ units (to provide 100% support levels for the assault echelons) and filled out base forces to use for garrisons.  If you have enough political points, I'd recommend bringing some of these out of the Kwangtung Army and then either initiating an attack on Yenen or in the South to take Wuchow and open up a land line of communication with Indochina. 

Another of the interesting aspects of the China campaign is that this is one theater where the Japanese can manage to be in a better supply situation than the Allies, but the Chinese do have nearly infinite manpower to eventually rebuild their units so you don't have a blank check for an attrition campaign.

[Shark7]

An option worth exploring would be to open a new front.  If he's shifted that many troops an area like Pakhoi (for example) could be easily taken via amphibious assualt (I just did this myself) and units of Southern Area can press inland from there.