Curiousity about French surrender

[vinnie71]

OI had a really funny game going on for some time. In 1914 and 1915 I steamrolled through France. On purpose I targetted the French army mainly, engaging wherever I found it. In practice it was reduced to 2 or 3 artillery units by mid-1915 (thanks to several encirclements up north as well). The front was held by the British, to such an extent that they even relocated their Egyptian garrisons to France. Yet France with its army all but annihilated, did not surrender. I even had Paris but failed to take Rouen and Belfort at both extremeties of the front. Obviously I had to relocate my best units to the Eastern Front in order to check the Russians who had pushed the Austrians hard.

How is it possible that France didn't surrender when in practice they didn't have an army to speak of? Could it be that the Italian declaration of war held them in the game?

BTW France surrendered only when I launched a massive (about 12 corps + artillery) central offensive and split the TE front in 2 and gained Lyon and Dijon (?) at one go.

[ILCK]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

How is it possible that France didn't surrender when in practice they didn't have an army to speak of? Could it be that the Italian declaration of war held them in the game?

B

Army losses do not bother people. Playing a hotseat game vs myself (I hate to lose) I launched what I knew would be a futile series of French attacks on the German Rhine defenses after the Germans went east trying to just draw off forces that were pressing the Russians. I suffered horrific losses 2 turns in a row, I mean huge losses. I checked next turn and morale was at 98%. I've actually bled France of manpower, not arms, and am still at 98%.

Loss of armies appears to do very little to crush morale but the loss of cities is what cripples a country. This is also why my efforts to "save" the Russian army in another game did not stave off the Revolution since trading land for men was the wrong decision.

[vinnie71]

Hmm... then that's why France kept 'fighting' on despite the annihilation of her army. What also amazed me is that the AI didn't even replace lost corps. It couldn't be that it ran out of manpower by 1915 (or could it be so?). Strange though that manpower losses don't count for much especially since both the Russian Revolution and the French mutinies (and to a smaller extent the collapse of AH) was greatly motivated by what many regarded as incredebly high and futile losses.

[ILCK]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Hmm... then that's why France kept 'fighting' on despite the annihilation of her army. What also amazed me is that the AI didn't even replace lost corps. It couldn't be that it ran out of manpower by 1915 (or could it be so?). Strange though that manpower losses don't count for much especially since both the Russian Revolution and the French mutinies (and to a smaller extent the collapse of AH) was greatly motivated by what many regarded as incredebly high and futile losses.

The low effect of losses is a bit odd since it was dead bodies that got folks very upset not the loss of some odd cities here and there.

France can run out of manpower - I know in 1915 in my hotseat game I've chewed through French manpower in Sept 1915 thanks to some poor decisions.

[vinnie71]

Yeah the French do seem to have more resources than manpower. Still its strange that a country that gets its army wiped out (for all intents and purposes) can still remain in the war. My next CP game will centre on taking the line Rouen - Paris and outflank the border forts. Hopefully that should suffice to break France by mid 1915

[FrankHunter]

then that's why France kept 'fighting' on despite the annihilation of her army. What also amazed me is that the AI didn't even replace lost corps. It couldn't be that it ran out of manpower by 1915

offworlder, just to clarify, yes France was probably out of manpower at the time. It comes in month by month once the initial allotment is "spent". The AI always tries to rebuild corps.

As for manpower losses counting against morale, well not by much, however, they do count against the exhaustion of the army.

[hjaco]

More likely France would have lost production capacity when loosing Paris which seems to be the case in general when loosing your capital?

[FrankHunter]

Yes, losing your capital cripples production to put it mildly

[hjaco]

I have a question to that regard Frank.

Does the high industrial concentration in capitals represent real industrial infrastructure or is it also partly representing administrative and rail infrastructure in a capital hub necessary for efficient use of industry spread around the country too small to represent in this game?

[FrankHunter]

It was a "design for effect" where I tried to balance the economic importance of areas.

[hjaco]

Makes sense - thanx