Suggestions balancing GPW

[Jay Doubleyou]

After playing a few 1 vs 1 GPW version 6 games I conclude that the German side is too weak. In other threads i have read other players thinking the same.
Since the scenario itself is very interesting and inspiring, a little balancing will improve gameplay, tension and fun.

This thread is to bundle the suggestions for balancing.

The main problem is that the Germans dont have any medium or heavy tanks in their OOB, while the Russians seem to be able to give them away for free so many they have. Especially the 15 heavy tanks are an obstacle later on in the game.
The luftwaffe is the only power that can deal with them, but the Luftwaffe is also easily disabled after turn 4 if you bundle the Russian fighters into big groups.

For Russian players that know the scenario a little this leads to the tactic of quickly retreating for 4 blitzturns and then hammer the Germans on the ground with their superior tankforce.

So i have the next suggestions:
1. Give Germans Fighter level 2 at the start. This reflect the superior quality of the Luftwaffe. It will give the German player the opportunity to upgrade other parts of his army, reflecting the overall superiority of the German army in 41.
or
2. Give Germans 15 medium tanks (5 in each Armygroup)in their OOB to even the tankbalance a bit. If you put them in the Armygroup hq in turn 1, they can be used in turn 2.
or
3. Give German side 100 extra PP, that they can spend like they want.

Also the winterpenalty for the German army is huge. I think they fight at 50% effectiveness and also movement is somewhat lower. And it lasts for 2 months (dec41 and jan42), which is 8 or 9 turns. Believe me this feels like 8 turns of blitz for the Russians and you can't put up a real fight anywhere. If you had any army left that reached the outskirts of Moscow, then soon you will find yourself without an army and back in Warsaw. Especially since the partisans seems to pop up by the dozen in the winter.
Can this winterpenalty be adjusted a bit?

[Mehring]

I agree with point 1 above, about level 2 fighters. I'd consider level 2 bombers as well.
 
I think 15 medium tanks is many more than the long barelled 50mm Pz IIIs and low velocity 75mm Pz IVs available that might just qualify as medium tanks.  It was only in early 1942 that the first Pz IV F2s with the long 75mm began to trickle in. Even though the Russian armour plate was of poor quality, turret configurations, lack of radios and doctrine reduced their overall efectiveness, those T34s and KVs were terrible monsters to contend with.  
 
Another option might be give Germans level 2 armour and the existing light tanks.
 
What about giving the Germans level 2 Staff? That seems very historical to me and should drastically increase the effectiveness of all units in HQ radius, offsetting Russia's nominal material advantage.

Clearly all the German commanders should have a very solid grasp of tactics and game mechanics.

Another game I found has a rail rule to represent Stalin's "no retreat" idiocy. Eastward rail movement is not allowed for a certain period (I'll look it up if anyone's interested in representing this).
 
Is there a way to lower Russian experience levels to reflect their lack of leadership and sound doctrine in this period? If this could be raised as the war progresses, to reflect improvements, that might work.
 

[Jay Doubleyou]

Staff level 2 is a good suggestion and historically accurate.

Level 2 armour would give the germans immediate access to level 2 medium tanks and thats certainly not what you could call their tanks at that stage.

[Mehring]

OK. Good point. Given the non-uniform make up of the Pz Div, how about 8 mediums, 2 per PzGr?

[mavnb]

there is also something that need to be adreesed (I think).
If stacking over 100 gives problems because of too many troops.
Why not the same on roads? Over 100 or 150 units start to lose
ap because they are "stucked in traffic"

[Ccr]

I have also enjoyed playing this great scenario and actually thought the original was well-balanced. The introduction of the changes in v6a really crippled the German players chances in getting a victory except against the most inexperienced player.
1. I agree that Fighter II would help to offset the large 'fighter swarms' the Sov player can use to good effect to pick off Ger air units in '41. Bomber II is probably overpowering the Luftwaffe too much.
2. StaffII is also a reasonable step.
3. I think an introduction of 8 extra medium tanks (to simulate Panzer IV Ausf D/Es) is also reasonable.
4. The extra 100pp is probably a step too far.
5. I actually think the 8 turns of 'severe winter' is fair & will force the German player to either give up approx 20 hexes or stand & fight (and probably be annhilated!) - The good German player will probably have gained enough ground to do this without threatening his hold of the production centres taken that summer. If he keeps his armoured forces in being over the winter he will be able to recover the lost ground with the 4 turns bonus in the summer of ’42.

If there is broad agreement from those interested in the scenario perhaps a new version can be made with the changes above (or those that the bulk of interested players agree with)? Sadly my mod knowledge is minimal but there are plenty out there with the requisite skills!

[Jay Doubleyou]

Currently we are playing a modded GPW version with:
- staff level 2
- fighter level 2
- 2 medium tanks for each panzergruppe (so 8 in total)
- introduction of OKH. All trains from the AG's have been transferred to OKH. This was done for our railroad houserule which prohibits railmovement behind a certain line. This reflects the transport and supplyproblems the Germans encountered and will slow down German advance.

Mehring made all the adjustments with the help of Tom Weber (the maker of the scenario).
If it turns out to be balanced, maybe it can be uploaded to the site by either Mehring or Tom?

[all5n]

I have played the GPW scenario 4-5 times now as both sides.
 
It is *very* difficult for the germans to survive the long cold winter.  forget about winning any armor battles without overwhelming odds.
 
I am currently trying out the +10% axis prod bonus to see if that makes much of a difference.
 
Another question/observation:  Is the scenario historically accurate?  Did the germans even have a prayer given the massive soviet land mass, production and man power advantages?  Perhaps there is really no way they could have won, and the scenario accurately reflects that.