Tank tactics

[invernomuto]

Which tactics work best with german tanks? Do you keep them hidden and stationary (in forest, behind buildings etc) or do you keep them moving on the battlefield. Is there a penality for enemy fire if a unit move during the round? I have the impression that a hidden tank once spotted = dead tanks if it remain stationary; this impression is confirmed by game rules?

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: invernomuto

Which tactics work best with german tanks? Do you keep them hidden and stationary (in forest, behind buildings etc) or do you keep them moving on the battlefield. Is there a penality for enemy fire if a unit move during the round? I have the impression that a hidden tank once spotted = dead tanks if it remain stationary; this impression is confirmed by game rules?

In actual combat a stationary tank is a dead tank unless it's so dominant that it can take anything thrown at it.

There are countless descriptions of tank actions where the tanks move around the battlefield at full speed, then going to full halt to fire at an identified target, once target has been neutralized they start moving again. Essentially using speed as a defense.

PC seems to allow for hitting tanks on the move too easily. The worst possible situation for a gunner is having a tank move laterally across his front at 90 degrees at high speed.

In some of the games I've played in PC, where we have had this situation occur, that tank is often killed with a first round hit. So, while I'm not sure what the math is for PC I think the deflection to hit percentages could be lowered a bit.

The only protection in PC for a tank seems to be armour plate and the angle of deflection off that armour.



Good Hunting.

MR

[Erik Rutins]

Actually, there is a penalty to hit enemy vehicles moving and moving at high speeds, but there is also a slight bonus to hit the side of a vehicle. It could be that the side bonus is mitigating the speed bonus a bit. Keeping in mind how many rolls are involved though, we'd need a save file to see if there's really an issue or just bad luck.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
The worst possible situation for a gunner is having a tank move laterally across his front at 90 degrees at high speed.

The worst possible situation is not being able to identify where something is that is firing at you.
It is harder for a gunner to estimate both the range and lead of something that is moving at a deflection to him. It is easier to calculate the lead in mils of a target that is moving at 90 degrees to him.

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Actually, there is a penalty to hit enemy vehicles moving and moving at high speeds, but there is also a slight bonus to hit the side of a vehicle. It could be that the side bonus is mitigating the speed bonus a bit. Keeping in mind how many rolls are involved though, we'd need a save file to see if there's really an issue or just bad luck.

The last time it happened it was my opponent that commented on it. I had no idea that I had been targeted by a single tank and hit on the first shot. According to him his tank was also moving which made him question the ability of his tank to even hit me. Of course lucky shots do occur. It might be something to track if there is a way to do it. I normally have 3-8 PC games going at any one time. Tell me how to track it and I'll be happy to.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

The worst possible situation is not being able to identify where something is that is firing at you.

What does that have to do with the chance a gunner has of hitting you? The sighting issue has been discussed and charts were even supplied. Hopefully that can be addressed in a patch that won't have to wait for the next game in the series. A tank is not 100% blind in all aspects but the forward arc as PC has it now. IMO, that correction would make for much more realistic game reactions and game play.

It is harder for a gunner to estimate both the range and lead of something that is moving at a deflection to him. It is easier to calculate the lead in mils of a target that is moving at 90 degrees to him.

True. The off angle deflection would be worse. Either way, a fast moving tank should be hard to hit. It was in real life.

Good Hunting.

MR

[NefariousKoel]

Yeah, seems like moving tanks are relatively easy to hit.

I generally keep mine stationary for awhile, preferably with LOS blocked on one or both sides if not hull-down.  Move up in short distances and reverse back if they survive the move (and need to be).'

I practically never use a fast move or move command on them since it's asking to be blown up without spotting the firing unit.  I've not had any tank rushes to cover, on a flank,  work as they end up being fiery wrecks in short order.

[Mraah]

With regards to moving tanks, perhaps what needs to be done is add one or two (or both) new modifier's to the roll :

1) Target Acquired
2) Time Delay (for first two shots)

Generally, we can say that if we were shooting at a moving target we have to take the time to equate speed and range and apply the lead. If we don't, and point and shoot, then obviously it will fall behind the target ( first shot: target not acquired) ... -2 modifier. If we don't compute the lead and base our next shot on the last we adjust ... (hit?) or did it now fall ahead of the target ... (second shot: target bracketed) ... -1 modifier. And then, alas, we fire the third shot which, if based on the last two, meets the moving tank ... zero modifier.

Of course, if we take the time to properly apply the lead and range then our first shot should meet the tank square ... this would be the time delay modifier that would lower the ROF of the firing vehicle for the first shot (first phase?).

With all this said and done, our target isn't going to cooperate by driving in the same direction during this process. So, I think we need to apply another modifier when our target changes direction during the phase or turn. This can be accomplished by adding an EVASIVE command button to our move command ... available in both the ORDERS and REACTION phase. What this will do is shorten our distance traveled (75% ?) by simulating movement that's not in a straight line. Maybe even after pressing the evasive button it will calculate or apply a random, zig-zag, blue movement line to the tanks destination. Heck, maybe even change to color to orange.

I dunno ...

Rob

[Mobius]

I would like to see a slight delay in acquiring a new target. Typically in modern training they allow an 6-8 second acquisition time. This would knock one of a maximum 5 shots off the fastest ROF guns and delay all others 1/5 a phase.

For moving targets the gunner doesn't usually adjust per the last shot. They have to either recalculate the lead in their head or control their aim better.

I recall in one book the German tank gunners where having the worst time hitting Russian tanks moving toward when they jinxed back and worth (crazy Ivan?). Ordinarily they could hit them if they continued moving along a straight path but they kept changing direction.

[Erik Rutins]

There is a chance for a new target acquisition delay in the system, though IIRC it's modified by experience and some of the nationality/year modifiers, so it may be quite small for veteran Germans in 1942, for example.

[NefariousKoel]

That would help the situation. [8D]