Some thoughts and questions from a newbie

[Pillbox]

I referred to "The Thin Red Line" as a "war poetry" movie. It was slower paced in sections, not as bloody as SPR, and had lots of poetic voice-over that confused me more than advanced the plot. Still there were some interesting characters in it and it was interesting to see Guadalcanal depicted on film. It doesn't touch SPR though, with regards to SPR's grittiness and its truthfulnes to squad level tactics and warfare.

Heh,.. after this thread I went ahead and watched it again.

[Iron Cross]

Mike - AKA: Ironic Fate

Just wanted to fill you in concerning the landing shown in the movie "Saving Private Ryan." What was portrayed in the movie was the worst part of the worst beach in the entire D-Day landings. Needless to say, but if all the beaches were like that one, we might not have been able to maintain the foothold we got on June 6, 1944. To begin with, the naval and aerial bombardment of the beach areas fell 3/4 to 2 miles inland, so the bomb craters/shell craters that were supposed to provide some cover were not there. Some of the infantry units landed in the wrong place (right under some of the bunkers shown on the movie and were literally chewed to pieces). To top it off, most of the DD (amphibious tanks) either landed in the wrong zone or sank in the heavy swells off of the beach. The unit that was supposedly defending the beach was the 716th infantry division, an untried unit that was full of "walking wounded" and foreign conscripts. They were there, but the veteran 352nd infantry division, fresh off of the Russian front, had arrived just before the invasion, so they did not break and run as the allied planners had thought they would. There were designated destroyers for close-in fire support, but most of the shore party and naval gunfire radios were lost in the assault waves. The destroyers had no terminal control for fire support and couldn't fire without hitting our own troops. What was shown in the movie was that well trained and led men can perform heroically even in the worst of situations. As a U.S. Marine officer, "Saving Private Ryan" is an excellent example of why we do not attempt opposed amphibious landings any more. If you think that "Saving Private Ryan" was bloody and screwed up, do some reading about the USMC assault in 1943 against Tarawa (Betio) in the Pacific. Over 1,100 dead, 3,000 wounded in 76 hours. I pray we never have to ask men to exhibit that kind of courage again, but knowing human nature, we most likely will. If you have any other questions concerning amphibious assaults, just post them and I will help you with them.

Iron Cross
Wenn Alles Bruders Es Schweigen

[Fuerte]

Originally posted by Cona:
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~filmhis/filmreview/ryan.html

I read the article. So Wild Bill's Ramelle scenario is very unrealistic. The stupid AI matches the stupid Germans well, that's why the scenario works so well.

SPWAW could also be more realistic with infantry:

"While it seems logical that infantry would fire their weapons, the US Army discovered that during the fighting in France, only 15% of the troops actually fired their rifles in any given battle. Nerves and fear played a role in producing this low number, but many American troops were also reticent to fire their rifles because American gunpowder was of poor quality and instantly revealed the position of anyone who fired their weapon."

15%, unbelievable.

[Peregrine Falcon]

I agree - 100%

SPR is nice - But far from excellent...

Originally posted by Cona:
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~filmhis/filmreview/ryan.html

Comments ?

Cona.