Ambushing - Does it work as it should?

[mooxe]

Generally I use ambush to micromanage my troops. They wont do anything untill I tell them to if on ambush. So far I have had instances where Germans have run right up to my men and a melee broke out before any gunfire started. Another example is a game I had where the German infantry was crossing an open road with no cover, 30m away from my infantry. My men did not open fire untill they were within about 15m, some Germans actually made it inside the house I was ambushing from to kill my men.

So can ambush have some added parameters to initiate fire bases on what type of cover the enemy is in?

How do we define the ambush range?

[Tejszd]

That is a good suggestion. In Eric Young's Squad Leader you could expand the defensive arc out from the unit to set the range for the unit to engage at.

[Stwa]

I have seen this alot myself, and usually, when I get frustrated because the ambushers won't open fire, I give them a fire order, and then WAMA, the ambush is on.

I used to think, my processor was slow, and it just wans't getting around to the ambushers time slice, but maybe there is a precentage chance that the enemy unit can sneak up on the ambushers as well.

I have no knowledge of a method that describes the ambush range. Perhaps its in the team database somewhere.

[Neil N]

I thought that on Ambush troops would hold fire on any enemy within LOS until they were 25m or less away.  This seems to work for me...I haven't run into any of the issues you describe.  My ambush teams tend to open up at 20m-30m and mowe down the enemy

[squadleader_id]

Infantry on ambush inside buildings do react slower to threats...you may need to manually set them on defend when enemies are nearby and they don't react.
I've never had to manually order them to fire though...once you set them on defend they will start firing and lobbing grenades on their own.
I find this to be a nice feature...keeps you on your toes

[Stwa]

You are right about setting them to defend. That will normally do the trick and I have done this as well.

[squadleader_id]

In previous CC Series...the best way to manage AT Guns was to set them on ambush...then when a target comes into LOS...set them to defend.
This way the gun crew will choose the best time to fire and will usually remain hidden. If you manually order them to fire at a target...usually the gun will be discovered right away and quickly destroyed.
In WAR this has changed...now if set AT Guns on defend...besides targeting armor...the crew will also fire at nearby infantry using their rifles...hopelessly giving away their positions in the process [:@]

[mooxe]

ORIGINAL: squadleader_id

In previous CC Series...the best way to manage AT Guns was to set them on ambush...then when a target comes into LOS...set them to defend.
This way the gun crew will choose the best time to fire and will usually remain hidden. If you manually order them to fire at a target...usually the gun will be discovered right away and quickly destroyed.
In WAR this has changed...now if set AT Guns on defend...besides targeting armor...the crew will also fire at nearby infantry using their rifles...hopelessly giving away their positions in the process [:@]

It makes you wonder exactly what the guys who were beta testing were doing? Was there much multiplayer testing?

The stakes are pretty low when playing vs the AI. So I suppose your ATGs being spotted doesnt mean that much to you when your opponent sucks. Online, if an ATG is spotted the battle tends to focus around the ATG untill its destroyed.

Some of the things we've found are glaringly obvious and have been adressed years ago with the other versions and mods, and all of the sudden here they are again. Maybe for the next rerelease S3T will extend some invites (not sit on the fence) out to the more experienced online players who have been around for years.... Tournament House would be an excellent place to start if A Bridge Too Far is in the works.

[Stwa]

ORIGINAL: squadleader_id

In previous CC Series...the best way to manage AT Guns was to set them on ambush...then when a target comes into LOS...set them to defend.
This way the gun crew will choose the best time to fire and will usually remain hidden. If you manually order them to fire at a target...usually the gun will be discovered right away and quickly destroyed.
In WAR this has changed...now if set AT Guns on defend...besides targeting armor...the crew will also fire at nearby infantry using their rifles...hopelessly giving away their positions in the process [:@]

Ya, I hear you, and now that I think about it, remember that last screenshot in the other thread. In that game, I think the AT's used up all their ammo on the enemy infantry. There were not even set on defend, but started shooting anyway. That game was CC5, and I could have sworn the guns were on ambush, because I was surprised when I went to check em and they were saving ammo.

Im probably wrong. Maybe I had them on defend.

[squadleader_id]

ORIGINAL: Stwa


Ya, I hear you, and now that I think about it, remember that last screenshot in the other thread. In that game, I think the AT's used up all their ammo on the enemy infantry. There were not even set on defend, but started shooting anyway. That game was CC5, and I could have sworn the guns were on ambush, because I was surprised when I went to check em and they were saving ammo.

Im probably wrong. Maybe I had them on defend.

If you don't give a unit specific defend/ambush order...they will engage the enemy on their own.
Well, ATG firing their gun at infantry when discovered or cornered is fine...but firing at infantry using rifles and giving away the ATG's position is just not right [;)]

[Tejszd]

I agree gun crews do start using their rifles too quickly.

Not sure why as I doubt it was changed on purpose but other AI tweaks could be causing the behavior change.

As for fixes there are a few options;

1) put guns on ambush and then as the player control at what and when they fire (this is how I play anyway, but I didn't realize it was worse than letting the AI take the 1st shot on its own)

2) data change to remove the rifles from gun crews but then they will be defenseless if/when they abandon the gun. But I would take that over the current situation.

3) code change; option 1 have all crew men assisting (aiming, loading, etc.) instead being able to use their rifles or option 2 AI change so that just gun crews will not use rifles unless the enemy is very close or they are being fired on.