When?

[Anendrue]

[quote]ORIGINAL: wargameplayer

I'd be upset if I were even half surprised or took his release estimates seriously. We are seeing more of the blame now for the release shift to other people. A bunch of you thought I was being too hard on the guy and glad handed him telling him what a great job he is doing. This project needed more people--which he specifically resisted because he was much more efficient working alone...

What a disaster. I'm very angry with Matrix for letting this happen to the title and managing a project of this statute and size this way. Project in flames.
[/quote}

Talk about overstating. This is not a disaster! This is the reality of almost any engineering project. Be it software, roads or bridges. Dates are established to create cost estimates, the reality of a projects viability, and many more reasons. Dates can shift in any project due to issues beyind the managers control. This could be 3rd party suppliers, weather, family events, or any other number of issues. If a software project came in two years later I wouldn't care. What I do care about is quality. I've wasted too much money in the past on poorly completed pieces of software that were released under the please pay us to bug test our software program. If you want garbage software rushed to completition go somewhere else.

To the community. I apologize for this rant. I am just sick and tired of people complaining about software release dates and then gripe if it comes out on time and has bugs. Some people can never be made happy. Some have ulterior motives for their complaints. I have been in the computer industry for 25 years and have seen it all both good and bad. Maybe we should complain about the complainers but that is no real solution either. So to wargameplayer my apologies for this flame but get a life and quit whining.

To me, Steve's project with Matrix and ADG is the highest example of openness, honesty, integrity, and down right awesome faithfullness to the truth. WAY TO GO STEVE - RAH RAH RAH!

[composer99]

Without being hostile to anyone griping about release date push-backs for MWiF, I might note that there is another company, with teams of developers and programmers under its employ, that has been known to delay the release of new games in order to ensure a high standard of quality (indeed, they do not offer specific release dates until the game is getting close to completion), and whose games are always worth the wait. That company, of course, is Blizzard Entertainment.

[Anendrue]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Without being hostile to anyone griping about release date push-backs for MWiF, I might note that there is another company, with teams of developers and programmers under its employ, that has been known to delay the release of new games in order to ensure a high standard of quality (indeed, they do not offer specific release dates until the game is getting close to completion), and whose games are always worth the wait. That company, of course, is Blizzard Entertainment.

I agree Blizzard does things this way. However, having a multimillion dollar budget selling millions of games is their strategy for a successfull high profit company. Somehow I do not believe they will ever make a game like MWiF and would dismiss this particular market group as a not so profitable endeavor. On the other hand, Matrix has a shoestring budget for thousands of consumers making complex wargames. I further believe Matrix will not dismiss wargamers out of hand. The smaller consumer group Matrrix caters too will always lead to more delays and issues cmpared to Blizzards target audience due to resource constraints. Therefore, I do not believe the two compare except both manufacture software wiith different marketing niches that vary extensively in size and scope. In essence, it is almost like comparing a factory with a cottage industry.

[werwolf]

What a strange life: when I said that Matrix would never release this game I was submerged by crticism.
Now everybody could see what is going to happen........

"Late April 2009"???....seeh, seeh, seeh..............

[Anendrue]

ORIGINAL: werwolf



What a strange life: when I said that Matrix would never release this game I was submerged by crticism.
Now everybody could see what is going to happen........

"Late April 2009"???....seeh, seeh, seeh..............

Do you have so little to do that all you can do is be destructive. I really feel sorry for you. This game will be released and it will be done when it is done. Better a piece of art than a piece of garbage. However since beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess you prefer garbage over art.

[werwolf]

Oooops..............I forgot another usual answer: "This game will be released and it will be done when it is done"

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

ORIGINAL: werwolf

What a strange life: when I said that Matrix would never release this game I was submerged by crticism.
Now everybody could see what is going to happen........

"Late April 2009"???....seeh, seeh, seeh..............

I have a question.

How many games have you purchased that were so buggy as to not be playable? How many games have you purchased that were basically solid but had one or two flaws that prevented you from playing and/or completing the game?

How many of these games never got the attention they needed for patches due to poor sales. And how many of these were the poor sales due to people bitching about 'they shipped an incomplete game'?

I understand that you would like to see more programmers working on this. I understand that you want it last year (or the year before that).

You need to understand that this game (as all 'traditional' wargames) will likely not have sales figures large enough to justify a large group of programmers working on it.

In my experience, adding more programmers, while it will get the job done faster, causes less efficiency and therefore the total cost is more.

I am elated that Matrix Games exists and has found a business model that can provide these games for us. Otherwise, these games WOULD NOT EXIST!

If you think you can do better, please, by all means, do the following....

• Gather up some capital
• Form your own company
• Acquire the rights to a traditional wargame (or write your own)
• Hire developers
• Hire artists
• Hire testers
• Hire managers
• Hire support staff
• Buy Coffee / Mountain Dew
• Meet Payroll
• Pay yourself a salary
• Pay for health care
• Pay unemployment taxes
• Pay FICA employer matching taxes
• Provide a 401K
• Host a company barbeque
• Produce a perfect product in record time
• Reap the Profits
• Rinse and Repeat

If you do this, the rest of us will become your customers [&o]

Honestly!

We promise not to complain until after the second patch!

We will be loyal.

We will help drum up business by spreading the word.

We will create websites honoring your products.

We will do anything we can to make sure that you can create the next GREAT GAME!

You can call it gladhanding all you want.

I call it being supportive.

I call it being encouraging.

I call it communicating to the company that I am a willing customer if they will keep creating products.

What happens when the principal parties at Matrix Games get some other job offer and realize that listening to the whining and bitching and moaning is just not worth it anymore.

Who then will write the games?

On the other hand, if they enjoy what they are doing and only get criticized when it is truly appropriate, maybe they will continue to provide the products we crave.

Again, if you can do better, please do! We NEED more quality computer games that are not tests of your hand eye coordination and reflexes.


For the record, I don't care when it comes out as long as it is done right.

[bredsjomagnus]

Why are you bothering at all werwolf. If you don´t like Matrix Games, if you don´t think this game will ever be released or what ever it is that you have a problem with. Just spare your self and the rest of us your anger and please don´t care (for real) about this project at all.
 
But I think that deep inside of you there is a Wiffer dieing for this game to come out. And it forces you to come back (like the power of the ring did to Gollum).
 
If that is the case, the project could always use a man or woman with your energy and dedication.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Without being hostile to anyone griping about release date push-backs for MWiF, I might note that there is another company, with teams of developers and programmers under its employ, that has been known to delay the release of new games in order to ensure a high standard of quality (indeed, they do not offer specific release dates until the game is getting close to completion), and whose games are always worth the wait. That company, of course, is Blizzard Entertainment.

I agree with you and I know Blizzard products myself too, their products are great; nevertheless, their forums are full of whiners/complainers, some people are never satisfied.

I speak of something I don't know but It's probably already too late now to add another dev. at this stage of the project. I guess adding someone who was not involved from the beginning could even delay the production further.

Meanwhile there is a lot of PC titles out there to be played, both at Matrix and elsewhere, enjoy yourself!

[Justascratch]

I'm sorry but I just can't take a flamer seriously. 
 
I'm pretty sure it was Einstein who wrote "all forward motion creates drag".
 
The only advice I can offer them is to leave the forum for 12 months or so and when they come back they can begin by reading all the play-by-play reports from customers like me who will have already been playing for several months.
 
 

[olivier_slith]

I've been reading this forum many years (check joined date) but seldom participates (check # of posts) as it is always the same stories coming out: why u guys r so slow (the abbreviations are on purpose as it is usually the  younger crowd that has no patience) before the release, and then, how can you have such a buggy product, after release (check the forum of la grande guerre). I always check these forums for 2 reasons: is the game going to be released before my next vacation (as a teacher, I have a lot ) and is the game playable?

As an example, I wanted to buy la grande guerre (WWI) for the coming week that I have off (thanksgiving for you who live outside US), so I checked if it was released, Yes, it is, then I check for playability, and, oh no, it's a mess, so I just wait and go back playing what I was playing (War in the Pacific).

So I'd like to thank programmers who take time to give us release dates, players who warn me against buying defective products, and above all, Matrix for keeping on publishing these jewels. Teenage whinners, keep off, I have enough of you at work!

[Tanan Fujiwara]

[font="times new roman"]I have been trailing this thread since I found out that WiF was going to finally reach the computer. I must admit that the project seems a Leviathan, especially if it is going to be done right… [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]That said I could care less about the price or how much time will it take to be completed, just as long as in the end the computer version is true to the original game. [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]I must say beforehand that Mr. OKeets monthly status reports are quite impressive and indeed shows the huge commitment he has undertaken with this awesome game, but after being badly burnt with EiA, I must admit I do not trust Matrix one pinch on this one, and I am afraid that they might just ruin a beautiful game once again.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Will the game include all of the official WiF expansions and options?[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Will the players be able to choose which optional rules they rather play with?[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Will the AI be at least competent enough not to make stupid mistakes against veterans of the game? (I am well aware that the AI will never equal a real player, but I believe that at least it should be barely challenging).[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Will the game stay true to the rules and sequence of play?[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]I do not know if this is the right place to ask these questions and I apologize if I should have published these questions somewhere else, but since some people are strongly disappointed with the delays I just wanted to mention the fact that I would much rather wait for as long as it takes to get a good and final product that stays true to the original than to hurry it up and get a game [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]My best[/font]

[sajbalk]

Will the game include all of the official WiF expansions and options?
Will the players be able to choose which optional rules they rather play with?
Will the AI be at least competent enough not to make stupid mistakes against veterans of the game? (I am well aware that the AI will never equal a real player, but I believe that at least it should be barely challenging).
Will the game stay true to the rules and sequence of play?

As an interested observer ...
MWiF will include all the expansions and options up through the summer of 2008, i.e. Planes in Flames, Ships in Flames, Mech in Flames, etc. It does not included Days of Decision, America in Flames, or Patton in Flames. The latter seem to be reserved for version 2 which depends, one presumes, on the sales of version 1.

There are efforts on the AI, but the developer will know better as to its status.

True to sequence of play? YES. Rules -- YES, but there is one scale for the whole world.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Will the game include all of the official WiF expansions and options?
Will the players be able to choose which optional rules they rather play with?
Will the AI be at least competent enough not to make stupid mistakes against veterans of the game? (I am well aware that the AI will never equal a real player, but I believe that at least it should be barely challenging).
Will the game stay true to the rules and sequence of play?

As an interested observer ...
MWiF will include all the expansions and options up through the summer of 2008, i.e. Planes in Flames, Ships in Flames, Mech in Flames, etc. It does not included Days of Decision, America in Flames, or Patton in Flames. The latter seem to be reserved for version 2 which depends, one presumes, on the sales of version 1.

There are efforts on the AI, but the developer will know better as to its status.

True to sequence of play? YES. Rules -- YES, but there is one scale for the whole world.

Steve is completely correct.

As for the AI Opponent, ... here is what is looking like the final version of the script for setting up Persia (download the TXT). PeskPesk has been hard at work on these. If anyone wold like to lend a hand, sned me a PM or email (SHokanson@HawaiianTel.net).

[Tanan Fujiwara]

[font="times new roman"]Thank you so much for the “blitzkrieg” response. [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]The AI for Persia seems good, I suppose mayor power AI is much more complicated, but alas, this game offers a great opportunity to port to a computer, especially if you take into account all the management aspects of the game, and having a single scale seems right, and does not influence the game a bit, since the original rules already took this into account regarding movement, supply, etc...[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]I am in the mist of a 1939 Campaign pbem game with the Japanese and things are starting to look bleak, but no matter, this game always offers a marvelous playing experience even if your butt is being kicked all over the pacific…[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]So as I said, take as much time as you need but for heavens sake get it right.[/font]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

December 1, 2008 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

Accomplishments of November

Project Management
Current planned release date for MWIF product 1 is late April 2009.

Communications
I monitored all the threads in the MWIF World in Flames forum daily and uploaded versions 11.04 and 11.05 for the beta testers.

Patrice keeps his hand in answering rules questions, sometimes by contacting Harry Rowland.

Peter Skoglund continues to help with developing scripts for the AI Opponent.

Nothing new from Robert Nebel or Michael Andersen (convoy pipelines).

Nothing new on unit writeups.

No information from Matrix about getting a price on a printed copy of the map.

No communications with Chris Marinacci or Harry Rowland.

Hardware and Software Development Tools
I have not installed ThemeEngine July/2007 - the status on this is unchanged.

Beta Testing
I uploaded 11.04 and 11.05 for the beta testers. The changes for 11.04 primarily concerned fixing bugs in the land combat resolution processing and interface. There are many combinations of results possible with land combat resolution and some of the rules were somewhat vague. With the help of forum members and the beta testers, I worked out precisely what the sequence of play is when the numerous optional rules are being used. There were a few obvious bugs from all the changes I made to land combat resolution and those were corrected in 11.05. 11.05 also enables placing two carrier air units on a carrier, which CWIF did not permit.

Units, Map, and Scenarios
Nothing new on any of these items.

Optional Rules
Nothing substantially new here. I did review and revise my list of the tasks remaining concerning optional rules. Oh, and I also enabled setting up Warlords within 6 hexes of their home city. That’s a deviation from RAW but it has been discussed in the forum and has met with general approval.

Player Interface
The land combat resolution and air-to-air combat forms are now similar in layout. I need to go back and make cosmetic changes to the air-to-air combat form for how the subphases are displayed. The newer style I developed for the land combat resolution is much better.

Internet - NetPlay
I made very little headway on writing the technical code for communicating between computers in November. This leaves me with the task of finishing the fundamental technical code plus integrating it into the master program for playing the game in December. I find it very difficult to work on new technical aspects of programming when there are other loose ends that are dangling in the wind. Hopefully I have cleaned up enough of them that I get focus on NetPlay at least half the time in December.

CWIF Conversion
The rewrite of the land combat resolution phase is complete. This includes retreats and advance after combat. I still need to do a similar task for naval interceptions and naval combat but I expect that to be easier since CWIF already had naval combat broken down into subphases. Not much remains in terms of removing unnecessary phases. There are some that I want to fold into naval combat (e.g., naval combat aborts are a separate phase and they should be a subphase of naval combat). Other than that I just have Overstacking and Collapse Vichy to convert into Digressions. Happily, most of that code is already written.

MWIF Game Engine
My final list of subphases for the LandCombatResolution phase is:
• Roll the dice for HQ support (not really a subphase, but it gets done first thing here),
• LCRspLandCombatSelection,
• LCRspDefSnowUnits,
• LCRspAttSnowUnits,
• LCRspChooseCombatType,
• LCRspLandCombatResolution (i.e., rolling the dice),
• LCRspConvertShattered,
• LCRspAssignLosses,
• LCRspHexControl (i.e., overruns due to successful invasions/paradrops),
• LCRspRetreats, and
• LCRspAdvanceAfterCombat.

In the process of making these changes I generated all the accompanying Game Record Log entries needed to support NetPlay.

Saved Games
Nothing new - it works.

Player’s Manual
Nothing was scheduled but I made a quick edit through the section on the introductory tutorials, to bring it up-to-date.

PBEM
Nothing was scheduled.

Historical Detail, Animations, and Sound
Nothing new.

Help System and Tutorials
Nothing new.

AI Opponent
Peter Skoglund and I spent some time working hard on the script for setting up Persia. One of the reasons this took so long was that part of the process included defining/refining elements of LAIO (Language for AI Opponent). I’ve brought my design specification for LAIO up-to-date with the various changes we decided upon.

This is looking pretty good; so much so that I began writing up the design for the parser. The parser will take the scripts and transform it into executable code for the main program. When the AIO needs to make a decision, it branches to a function for the specific decision (there are 90+ decision points). Associated with each decision point is a script. At the beginning of program execution, all the scripts are read in and parsed. This means that when the time comes to make a decision, the AIO will simply execute the parsed/compiled code.

Today Peter sent me a new version of the script for setting up Afghanistan, and he is working on encoding the script for setting up The Netherlands. I figure those 3 will be enough for me to develop and debug the parser.

Other
The aftermath of the Pan Pacific 2008 convention still drew my attention in the beginning of November. And then I needed to clean up all the MWIF items that I had let slide. For instance, I typically update my master task list every two weeks with all the bits and pieces of stuff that gather on my desk, in my email, and in the MWIF development forum (i.e., beta testers bug reports). When I turned to do that this month I found that the last time I had done so was August 19th! Mercifully, there were only 23 new bugs to add to the list, which is around 4 per each new version I uploaded. After bringing my list up-to-date I managed to fix 18 of those while simultaneously solving all the new ones reported for 11.04.
====================================================================
November summary: I am now back to full steam on MWIF, though there were some rough spots at the beginning of the month..
====================================================================

Tasks for December

Communications
Continue monitoring the forum threads.

Map and Units
Nada.

Beta Testing
Upload versions every week. [est. 2 hours]

Optional Rules
Review, comment, modify, and create code for optional rules [est. 20 hours]

Redesign of MWIF Game Engine
Continue to work through the sequence of play giving each phase its own module. As part of this task, convert CWIF style internet formats to Game Record Log Formats. [est. 100 hours]

Player Interface
Finish the code for determining and displaying supply lines. [est. 10 hours]

Create hex destination lists for air missions. [est 10 hours]

Complete the Task Forces forms. Implement Task Forces as a new “unit type”. [est. 30 hours in Jan.]

NetPlay
Write the technical code for communicating between multiple computers [est. 100 hours]
Implement the bidding capability using NetPlay. [est. 10 hours]
Incorporate the Indy10 code for the two player system into MWIF. [est. 20 hours]
Incorporate the multi-player (more than 2) system into MWIF. [est. 35 hours in January]

AI Opponent
Define LAIO variables with their supporting functions. Design and code the parser for LAIO. [est. 50 hours]

Help System and Tutorials
Nothing scheduled until March.

Player’s Manual
Nothing major scheduled until February.

Historical Detail, Animations, and Sound
Nothing scheduled until April.

Other
The chorus has 2 gigs this coming week, one of which is a block from my house. Then we have our Xmas show the following weekend. After the Xmas show, singing will disappear from my life until January. We have had 3 meals from the 14 pound turkey so far and it looks like 4 or 5 more remain.
================================================================
December summary: Get NetPlay functioning, and finish most of the remaining revisions to the sequence of play. Keep the beta testers busy.
================================================================

[Anendrue]

Thanks for the update.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Other than that I just have Overstacking and Collapse Vichy to convert into Digressions. Happily, most of that code is already written.

If you wrote them, they are, but if you count on what existed in CWiF, I think that Collapse Vichy was not included in CWiF, as all conquest & surrender steps. [8D]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Other than that I just have Overstacking and Collapse Vichy to convert into Digressions. Happily, most of that code is already written.

If you wrote them, they are, but if you count on what existed in CWiF, I think that Collapse Vichy was not included in CWiF, as all conquest & surrender steps. [8D]

There is a lot of code related to Collapsing Vichy, whether it is all linked together to function correctly, I haven't checked out.

[lomyrin]

The CWiF Vichy implementation has some errors and problems.
 
Lars