WWII General Commander - Operation Watch on the Rhine

[Hub]

Don't recall any Panthers or Marders being armed with 88's during the Bulge...

[GBS]

This game looks very good to me. I don't understand why it hasn't garnered more attention. Also whats the risk with limited downloads? I only need one as I see it..

[Arsan]

ORIGINAL: GBS

This game looks very good to me. I don't understand why it hasn't garnered more attention. Also whats the risk with limited downloads? I only need one as I see it..

Its not limited downloads, its limited installs.
You download the game, install it, activated online and then have two backup installations "in reserve".
Now, suppose you want to put the game on your laptop and later one of your computers suffer a problem and you have to format and reinstall, or want to change OS...
All 3 allowed installations would be gone.
So if you buy a new computer or the installation gets corrupted by... maybe a faulty patch or some modding or a virus... you are out of luck! [X(]
You should buy the game again! [:-]
All this of course if you can trust that a couple of years in the future, the game company and their activation servers will still exists and work OK.
For me this is inexcusable. If i buy a game, it should be mine, to install and uninstal as i see fit.
I don't like online activation, but can understand this as an anti piracy system.
But limited activations/installations are just a way to piss off your buyers [:@]
A shame as the game looks like could be interesting (if the AI would be half decent)... [:(]

Luckily, BFTB is near! [&o]

[HansBolter]

What happens to people like me who build their own systems and wipe their hard drives clean and reformat and reinstall at least once, if not twice a year?

Totally screwed.

I will NEVER buy a product with a limited number of installs.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Hub

Don't recall any Panthers or Marders being armed with 88's during the Bulge...

Right, 75mm KwK 42 L/70 employed on the Panther, and the PaK 36 (r) (captured Russian AT gun) 76,2 mm or the Russian field gun 296, or the German 75mm PaK 40/2 - alternatively, on the Marder II.

Well, they didn't do their homework. [:D]. The strengths of this game may reside in the supply-system, the command tools for operational decisions, or *cough* the multiplayer mode. Heaven knows.

[Arsan]

Regarding the 88 gun, for what i have read on a very nice AAR posted on an Spanish forum by Celticid (maybe he is also working on a translation of it to post i here?? [&o]), all tanks have the same 88 gun (form the Sherman to the Kingtiger) and the difference between them are only different armor ratings.
Also, different infanteries seems to have the same weapons too.
So its not an error...it seems to be a design decission done to simplify force management.
Personally, i don't like the idea [:(]

Regards

[JudgeDredd]

Well, it could be a beer and pretzels game and there is nothing wrong with those.
 
There have been discussions many times that just because something isn't historically accurate and plays out historically, doesn't mean there's not a market for it.
 
It's the limited installs that does it for me. I've just rebuilt my computer and because I "forgot" to unlicence a game, I could not play it. I had to contact the developer, then an eLicence company.
 
I will not be going down that road again!

[Arsan]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Well, it could be a beer and pretzels game and there is nothing wrong with those.

There have been discussions many times that just because something isn't historically accurate and plays out historically, doesn't mean there's not a market for it.

It's the limited installs that does it for me. I've just rebuilt my computer and because I "forgot" to unlicence a game, I could not play it. I had to contact the developer, then an eLicence company.

I will not be going down that road again!

Yep, i agree in all your points [:)]
Limited activations is the main problem here

[GIveloper]

---------------------- Victor Perez posting (WWII: GC Designer) ------------------------------
 
Posted on Wargamer.com on Monday 1st December.
 
Hello Wargamers,
 
I know I have said I will not use the forum to contact you, but the controversy regarding the DRM and the lack of information regarding our game in wargamer webs has motivated my return… sorry
 
Answering the question of DRM, honestly we did not know it was three activation (pls do not confuse with installation). I have contacted Nexway to clarify that and to provide condition that can protect us (developer and those wargamers who have bought the game):
 
Confirmed by Nexway:
 
The activations are now, and it includes the existing downloads, to five (5).
In two years (period to avoid piracy) that will be up to ten (10).
 
Probably it will not satisfy everyone but as CEO of the company and also to defend the right of those who legally have bought the game I have been forced to take that option, I believe it is a good compromise.
 
Other: Hardcopies; it was too much for this version but we are working to sell copies to those who have bought the game and those who want to buy… but it will take more time to organize the logistic structure..
 
Another question appears in different forums:
 
Who knows those guys? Why there no news about them in the net?
 
Well, I can say we have done our work, the company has send press note since July, including videos (Gametrailers.com, Gameindustry.com)… so why it has not been propagated by the net, only one journalist contacted with us during this period!!
 
Business, it is only business and we are in the Christmas Campaign, as I have said in my first post, I am here to sell you a product, a commercial product. And since you do not spend all you Christmas budget, our game will not have any news in any webs… You need to follow your own advice and trust in us....
 
But we have to do our best to let people know our game and have the opportunity to enjoy it. I will use this post to keep you update about the game, videos, multiplayers news, etc.. as far as the manager of this web let me ….
 
And invite to those who really has played the game to post their comments!!
 
Do not hesitate to contact me in stragames@stragames.com or using the stragames.com forum for those who have bought the game!!
 
All the best, Victor.

 
Pd: We are not EA and WWII: GC is not Spore... [:)]

[Phatguy]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

ORIGINAL: Hub

Don't recall any Panthers or Marders being armed with 88's during the Bulge...

Right, 75mm KwK 42 L/70 employed on the Panther, and the PaK 36 (r) (captured Russian AT gun) 76,2 mm or the Russian field gun 296, or the German 75mm PaK 40/2 - alternatively, on the Marder II.

Well, they didn't do their homework. [:D]. The strengths of this game may reside in the supply-system, the command tools for operational decisions, or *cough* the multiplayer mode. Heaven knows.

Yes they did do thier homework.. The 75mm KwK 42 L/70 is NOT sexy to the unwashed masses who walk zombie fashion thru Walmart.. The 88 on the otherhand, has that "sexy" cachet. Even Joe Six-pack from trailerparkville has heard of an 88 from countless war movies. So while this game, while sold to us wargamers is really pandering to the masses who can't find thier copies of Deer Hunter XXIV:Bambi Strike Back and have an intrinsic need to blow them "dam Krauts" to smithereens just like granpappy did in the big one......

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Yes they did do thier homework.. The 75mm KwK 42 L/70 is NOT sexy

Well, thing is, the game is being advertized as the first game "of a wide series of videogames to reproduce the WWII conflict", with a "geographical scale ... very close to the real one", where it incorporates "handling of complex units: Regiments and Divisions" and "Supplies" which were part of the historical engagements.

Ppl visiting the website don't get much information besides the core info I quoted above, so they will sureley get the impression that this game is rather about accuracy regarding historical details than about simplifications, so people might easily get the impression that they didn't do their homework. While pointing out that they accurately rendered all the geographical details and other things, they don't mention that they streamlined armament details, anywhere, so they seem to be waiting until some of the users may accidentally stumble over it either by closely checking the screenshots beforehand or after the purchase, when playing the game.
If it's a matter of streamlining rather than "lack of homework", why don't they mention it on the homepage?

This coupled with the activation thing and the pure focus on multiplayer keeps me from buying this game (I'd buy a SP version with decent AI/without activation).

@GIveloper:

On a sidenote, the fact that there's no information about the activation limitations anywhere violates German laws/jurisdiction.
A product HAS to carry information (like let's say a sticker on a real DVD jewel case or a warning header on the electronic download purchase page) about these types of usage limitations and about the number of activations per product-key.
German courts emphasize that it's not sufficient to hide infos about limited usage/activations somewhere in some let's say 40 pages of "terms and conditions". According to various court decisions, the software companies can't impose to read or understand all these cryptic collections of law terms on the end-user. The worst cases are where users get to know about limitations after buying the game: -> during the installation process.

I am not sure about French consumer laws/rights right now, but EU directives use to feature similar consumer protection laws, so you guys might even violate EU laws here as well, by keeping back information.

Spread the info on the product info page or on the purchase screen. It's kinda odd that you leave it to disappointed users (who bought the game) to inform potential customers in some 3rd party forums. I tried to find a review (for hours - but I didn't find any) and I stumbled over a brief discussion in some gaming forum, which covered the activation thing.

The product information screen in the Game shop (step 1) doesn't include this information, at least.

ORIGINAL: GIveloper

---------------------- Victor Perez posting (WWII: GC Designer) ------------------------------

Well, I can say we have done our work, the company has send press note since July, including videos (Gametrailers.com, Gameindustry.com)… so why it has not been propagated by the net, only one journalist contacted with us during this period!!

Well, when looking at the gfx, your game can't compete with the current multiplayer standard in the graphic depepartment, i.e. "Company of Heros" and Panzers II, nor with the cute (but outdated) graphics in the SuddenStrike/Blitzkrieg series, so - in my books - you'll be rather restricted to the wargame niche.... grognards/enthusiasts, this might explain your low amount of feedback (only one journalist? lol?). You should consider to create a demo version, a demo version spreads fastly on the net and you can send CD versions to selected editors.
I start to wonder..... I mean, what do you know about press relations and customer relations? I start to think that these 2 things are the parts where you really didn't do your homework, lol.

And since you do not spend all you Christmas budget, our game will not have any news in any webs… You need to follow your own advice and trust in us....

Well, you have to put your cards on the table, like we say. You have to tell potential customers that your game's focus is on multiplayer and that the game features a limited amount of activations - on your webpage, IF you want people to trust you.

As a widely unknown game developer, you guys should not start out like this. Keeping back infos rather alienates potential customers.

My 2 cents

[Txema]

A demo of the game WWII General Commander has been recently released [:)]
 
You can download it here:
 
http://stragames.com/gc/downloads.html
 
 
Txema

[Max 86]

"soldiers supported by tanks, air fighters and bombardiers fought for three dramatics weeks around the Ardennes forest,..."

Ah yes, the great air battles of the Bulge.  Who can forget those![8|]

Oh yeah, another thing that bothers me...a locked forum for game owners only? Are they afraid of what non-owners might read in there or something?

[06 Maestro]

Well, there was the great Luftwaffe attack on Allied airbases in Belgium and N.France on 1 January. IIRC they destroyed about 350 Allied A/C for a loss of about 30 planes. Too bad no one told the German AA gunners that friendly A/C would be returning en mass and flying low. An additional 200 plus German A/C were lost, including some top aces-by friendly fire.

[GBS]

Just to keep this alive, I downloaded the demo and it is huge..took me almost 45 minutes. I have had a clean CTD each time i have played it and it pisses me off that I can't ask questions on the forum. I have to buy the game to participate on the forums. I have been very disapointed in the last few games I have purchased (Jutland, WWI, etc.)and am not willing to throw any more dollars at these things so I'm not taking the chance. All I want to know is if the demo crashes..should I expect the same from the full game. I have two words for wargamers....GARY GRIGSBY...when his games release they are good, complete, and they work. Well I could also put PANTHER in that same class.

[Crimguy]

The forum there is pretty quiet. About 250 posts that I saw. I tried the demo. I did like a lot of what I saw, but I don't demand every game I play have historical accuracy. It is misleading though, that they advertise it with an emphasis on realism.

Still- it's a great proof of concept as to what can be done with 3D in wargames. I remember having arguments about 3D back on the TacOps mailing list in 1996 or so. I was laughed at by a lot of the old-timers there.

One thing I find funny is that so many of the so-called hardcore war gamers will complain about lack of accuracy in modeling of penetration values, armor effectiveness, AA values of battleships (my shout-out to the WitPers out there), competence of various generals (WitP again), but when push comes to shove, the game is almost always abstracted at some level (hexes, units that are comprised of 1000's of men and machines, lack of morale model). So what your left with on practically any war game is . . . a game. This applies to the AA titles as well. Once you throw some level of abstraction into the mix, all the so-called realism goes out the window.

[Max 86]

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

Well, there was the great Luftwaffe attack on Allied airbases in Belgium and N.France on 1 January. IIRC they destroyed about 350 Allied A/C for a loss of about 30 planes. Too bad no one told the German AA gunners that friendly A/C would be returning en mass and flying low. An additional 200 plus German A/C were lost, including some top aces-by friendly fire.

I remember that too but the battle had pretty much been decided by then. The Luftwaffe played little if any role stopping the Allied advance/counterattack. But just picking nits really.

[dudalb_slith]

Actually there was a lot of combat in the air during the Ardennes Offensive. Danny Parker wrote an excellent book called "To Win THe Winter Sky" about it.
But I agree this does not look like a game I will be getting.
That they did not know about the DRM limited installs, which has become the #1 hot button issue in computer gaming today does not speak well of their professionalism.

[Agema]

I imagine your average first-time game maker may well not know much about this, and possibly not much about marketing either. I assume they've contacted a publishing company who've told them they'll deal with it. At that point they're at the mercy of the publisher. But their struggles are not entirely dissimilar from various mass-market developers, many of whom also have had to wriggle out of the clutches of one set of publishers and find another because they feel let down, often leaving their brand behind to do so (e.g. Crytek and Far Cry). If the publisher is new also, presumably they've got a lot to learn too.

[dudalb_slith]

Anyway, the "All Tanks have 88s" is enough to keep me away from this game. I don't mind some  simplification, but that goes into major distortion,