Based on Atomic Games’ award-winning Close Combat series, Close Combat: Wacht am Rhein brings together the classic top-down tactical gameplay from the original series and plenty of new features, expansions, and improvements! The Wacht am Rhein remake comes with a brand new Grand Campaign including a new strategic map with 64 gorgeous hand-drawn tactical maps, over 70 scenarios, tons of new interface and unit graphics, countless engine improvements, and much more!
I see that you're from Spain and maybe you do not understand my english. The action in Combat Mission does, in fact, unfold in real time. I never suggested that the player could give orders in real time - I was only saying that the ACTION unfolds in real time. Understand?
I understand very well your english but you are telling something from one game and it is incorrect, on CM there are not action on real time because it is as one film, you make your movements, orders and next game makes a film from all these. It is not action on real time.
Combat Mission is much more of a combat simulator than Close Combat.
Only on your opinion.
This, I'm sure, is pretty commonly thought across the war gaming community. In fact, back on the Battlefront forum there are serious war gamers who think that CC is a little too unrealistic and simplistic.
The opinion from a few people, I play many times with players who they play CM and CC games and they know the differences.
Of couse if they think this, they are not serious. They are arrogant.
but I think Combat Mission edges out Close Combat as a simulator.
I do not know if CC is worse or better Combat Simulator but I know that some military corps from some countries use it for training. It should speak better from CC games.
I'll have to check out CMx2 as I didn't know they had gone completely real time.
As for which is more realistic I'm sure there are fans of both. I probably have a CC bias but the marines using CC should count as a few extras votes for CC....
I understand very well your english but you are telling something from one game and it is incorrect, on CM there are not action on real time because it is as one film, you make your movements, orders and next game makes a film from all these. It is not action on real time.
Well, your definition of 'real time' must differ from mine. Real time means that 1 second of game time = 1 second of our time. And by that definition the action(or film, as you like to call it) unfolds in 'real time'.
Only on your opinion.
Well, actually it's mine and a LOT of others out there. There's a reason why there are so many posters over on the Battlefront forums which have literally posted hundreds of thousands of posts. I'm certainly not speaking for them or their beliefs. But, like I say, there's a reason that there are so many faithful to the CM series and it's not because it's unrealistic.
The opinion from a few people, I play many times with players who they play CM and CC games and they know the differences.
Of couse if they think this, they are not serious. They are arrogant.
No, it's not arrogance, it's their opinion. Are you more arrogant because you think CC is more realistic? No, of course not.
I do not know if CC is worse or better Combat Simulator but I know that some military corps from some countries use it for training. It should speak better from CC games.
Yes, but, then again I'm guessing the Marines are using a customized version of CC. It's not the same game that we play. BTW, Battlefront has said that CMSF is being been used at the Army's Command and General Staff College.
Like I said earlier, both games have their strengths and weaknesses and I enjoy playing both games. I've bought every single original CC game 1-5 plus WaR. But CM is a more realistic betrayal of WWII combat in my opinion. If you want we can discuss the strengths and weaknesses of both games as they pertain to realism.
Well, your definition of 'real time' must differ from mine. Real time means that 1 second of game time = 1 second of our time. And by that definition the action(or film, as you like to call it) unfolds in 'real time'.
Your definition is very bad and incorrect because on CM you can not give orders on the moment that you think as real time. It is not real time, it is not more than one video film.
BTW, is there a way in CM to get the display to show 12 soldiers for a squad, instead of 3? I can't get past the visuals of seeing 3 men per squad, and having to imagine the rest of the men. I don't play CM too much, mostly because i can't get past the lonliness of 3-man squads.
Yes, but, then again I'm guessing the Marines are using a customized version of CC. It's not the same game that we play. BTW, Battlefront has said that CMSF is being been used at the Army's Command and General Staff College.
The version used by the Marines is being sold as CCMT.
Well, your definition of 'real time' must differ from mine. Real time means that 1 second of game time = 1 second of our time. And by that definition the action(or film, as you like to call it) unfolds in 'real time'.
Your definition is very bad and incorrect because on CM you can not give orders on the moment that you think as real time. It is not real time, it is not more than one video film.
Actually it's the standard definition of 'real time', I can't take credit for it.
And, first of all, I already stated that you cannot give orders in real time(during the "film"). Second, the term "real time" has absolutely NOTHING to do with giving orders. It has everything to do with how we describe game time in respect to player time.
I'll repeat: 1 second of game time = 1 second of our(real) time. This means that it's not slowed down, it's not fast forward and it's not turn based.
To sum up:
Close Combat = action and orders in real time
Combat Mission x1 = action in real time
Combat Mission x1 = orders in we-go turns
Highway to the Reich = action and orders continuous time (including real time)
Steel Panthers = action and orders in unit turn based
BTW, is there a way in CM to get the display to show 12 soldiers for a squad, instead of 3? I can't get past the visuals of seeing 3 men per squad, and having to imagine the rest of the men. I don't play CM too much, mostly because i can't get past the lonliness of 3-man squads.
Not in the 1st generation of CM games. The "3 man squad" is really a graphic representation of the full squad, much like the cardboard counters of board wargames.
The CMx2 engine shows every soldier, I think, and with much better graphics and animation.
The version used by the Marines is being sold as CCMT.
The web site says "Based on Close Combat Marines, which is used as a USMC training simulation". So, I'm assuming that it's been changed a little for the masses.
And, first of all, I already stated that you cannot give orders in real time(during the "film"). Second, the term "real time" has absolutely NOTHING to do with giving orders. It has everything to do with how we describe game time in respect to player time.
It is easy. If you can not give orders, you can not play.What is for you real time game? A game is for play and on the CM part that you tell, you do not play, you only watch the screen. You can tell us all the things that you want but CM is a turn game.
It is easy. If you can not give orders, you can not play.What is for you real time game? A game is for play and on the CM part that you tell, you do not play, you only watch the screen.
Are you telling me that because CM is not fully real time that a person cannot play it? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
You can tell us all the things that you want but CM is a turn game.
Oh my GOD! for the billionth time, I've said that CM is a we-go turn based game from the beginning. Get that through your thick skull!!! The ACTION is real time!!!!
On second thought, drop it. I'm through with this discussion with you. You are unwilling to accept the facts presented to you and everything you say is in terrible English, and therefore I can only assume that you are not understanding my English. My Spanish is probably worse than your English, so it's pointless to try to communicate with you. Let's just consider the discussion over.
To the TS. I agree this is an improvement. But I still see the A.I. not using their armored units effectively. Only sending out infantry to capture VLs, while they park their tanks somewhere else safe.
It's frustrating. Hopefully this can be fixed in later patches instead of future installments. Because Close Combat for me was all about the A.I. Thus, CC2 was still the best series for me.
The version used by the Marines is being sold as CCMT.
The web site says "Based on Close Combat Marines, which is used as a USMC training simulation". So, I'm assuming that it's been changed a little for the masses.
Yes, they fixed some bugs, added some graphics and changed Marines to Army. Here is a screen from the old CCM. Note reused CC5 graphics.
Actually, CCMT is based on CCM v5, while the USMC now uses CCM v6. V6 is miles beyond where v5 and CCMT is in terms of complete editor control of each soldier (yeah, marine) in each team to set every attribute, weapon and ammunition level. CCM v6 also adds civilians that can edited to be hostile or passive to either or both sides, emplaceable fortifications, entrenchments, obstacles, barriers, concertina wire and command or proximity detonated mines and IEDs. Deployment is simplified from 5 individual zones per side to one common area per side (while still retaining the ability to use multiple, unconnected deploy areas) and allows the battle designer to place every unit in a start position that fits his scenario. It also adds a wealth of uses of conditional triggers and compound triggers to provide players with information, artillery and air strikes, reinforcements, changes to victory conditions, and many more features.
It also introduces a fire support controller, that as a separate player allocates the scenario's mortar, artillery and aircraft to up to nine concurrent battles, each of which may be playing on nine different maps. Players on each map must request fires or close air support on drop down menus that are very close to actual Nine Line and Six Line forms used in real life. This feature is quite fantasic in it's realism, but probably would not be much apprieciated by the average civilian CC player. You can't always get what you asked for or it doesn't arrive when you needed it most. And you get it where you asked for it, even if you got the grid coordinates wrong and it is your position... or on the right grid coordinates on the next grid square over (because you screwed up with shagging the grid), which puts your artillery barrage down on somebody elses map.
This is all great for the military, because it is a teaching tool, but not the kind of thing that would generate much of a fan base in a commercial game. There are viable plans for a commercial adaptation and anything that replaces that yellow smoke "you are about to be plastered" telltale would be welcome, IMHO. In CCM v6, just backing out from that marker would do little good anyway as attack aircraft go after any target of value within 100 meters of their initial target grid, laser designation or not. Yep, laser designators are there too, along with laser range finders, GPS, as well as NVGs for night battles. Yep, night battles.
All that is there now, courtesy of the USMC. It is a part of the basis that CC6 is being developed to, along with some sort of operation and campaign system that I'm not privvy to any details of.
CC has come a long way as any long time CC fan can attest. I'm telling you that it has already gone a lot farther than most of you have seen and it will go much farther. So keep pointing out the errors you see and suggesting things you would like to see in future games.
ORIGINAL: Senior Drill
So keep pointing out the errors you see and suggesting things you would like to see in future games.
That's why I post here. I'm often critical of CC but that's because I want to see it improved.
Thanks for the info on CCMT. I had a feeling that the commercial version of CCM was not what is being used by the Marines. Of course it was just a hunch because I have yet to play CCM.
Actually, CCMT is based on CCM v5, while the USMC now uses CCM v6.
I meant in comparison to old CCM, not the newest one.
ORIGINAL: Senior Drill
It also introduces a fire support controller, that as a separate player allocates the scenario's mortar, artillery and aircraft to up to nine concurrent battles, each of which may be playing on nine different maps. Players on each map must request fires or close air support on drop down menus that are very close to actual Nine Line and Six Line forms used in real life. This feature is quite fantasic in it's realism, but probably would not be much apprieciated by the average civilian CC player. You can't always get what you asked for or it doesn't arrive when you needed it most. And you get it where you asked for it, even if you got the grid coordinates wrong and it is your position... or on the right grid coordinates on the next grid square over (because you screwed up with shagging the grid), which puts your artillery barrage down on somebody elses map.
In CCM v6, just backing out from that marker would do little good anyway as attack aircraft go after any target of value within 100 meters of their initial target grid
