What happens to Force Z in the game vs. real life?

[TommyBoy84]

Anybody tried lumping all the British ships in Singapore on Dec 8th and sending them north to Khota Bharu? Do you wind up getting walloped by air strikes, or have any of you actually managed to sink any BB's or CA's without getting your entire force decimated?

[AW1Steve]

I pretty much always get decimated , with little to show for it. If I put every Buffalo I have over it for air cover , it might have a chance of survival , but by in large ,I find  it's more effective to withdraw force z and use it latter.

[2ndACR]

Well, against the AI, I can wreak some havoc. Usually I manage to bang up a BB pretty good, get a few damaged ships myself and then they get popped by Betty's.
 
Against a human, well better to run and use them to make my opponent very cautious about where they are and when they will pop up. As long as Force Z remains, he will have to cover every landing lest I appear and spank him.
 
But most of the time, I sink more and cause more havoc with Boise. I try to get her safe above all others.

[Andy Mac]

Its mixed if Force Z gets in amongst the Jap Covering Force its a 50:50 proposition especially if you replace the commander
 
POW and Repulse's 15" guns v the LL of the CA's (The CA's are more dangerous than the Jap BB's)
 
I have seen decisive surface victories for both sides (allies if they can get Boise, Houton and some US/Dutch DD's to reinforce the screen do a lot better then its more like a 60:40 win loss for the allies)
 
The chance of getting there un spotted is also I think about 50:50
 
So 50% chance of getting there and then 50% of that time Allies will 'win' the surface fight.
 
So about a 1 in 4 chance of a good result.
 
On the run away its about an 8 in 10 chance of Z getting killed by Betties or Nells
 
So 1 in 4 of winning (obviously bigger chance of significant damage to Jap BB's even if force Z loses)
 
So trying the historic option results in about a 1 in 4 chance of significant damage to the Jap Fleet but only about a 1 in 20 chance of getting out of it with the fleet intact.
 
POW and Repulse together are a handfull for the Jap cover force they just need a bigger screen so waiting a day and pulling in more escorts is always worthwhile
 
 

[m10bob]

The bait of Japanese transports has compelled me to send Force Z north, whereupon they became submarines.[:(]

[Yamato hugger]

In AE historical first turn you have no choice. Force Z sails and usually gets itself into a historical mess.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

In AE historical first turn you have no choice. Force Z sails and usually gets itself into a historical mess.

Uggh...please tell me the Allied player has some say over that. The Jap air threat seems like something a commander on the scene might have foreseen.

Oh...I just noticed you said "historical". That makes sense.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I pretty much always get decimated , with little to show for it. If I put every Buffalo I have over it for air cover , it might have a chance of survival , but by in large ,I find  it's more effective to withdraw force z and use it latter.

Completely agree. The threat of Force Z appearing at a Jap landing in Borneo or Timor not well coverd by naval air or Bettys will cause the Jap player to be more cautious or send strong surface forces to cover his landings.

[BrucePowers]

What? Me worry....[:D]

[Shark7]

Force Z is a mixed bag.
 
I've set it up so that the AI sends Force Z to Kota Baharu as historically happened and had 4 distinct outcomes over several play tests.
 
Outcome 1:  Force Z gets decimated by aircraft on the way there or back.  No damage to the landing force.
Outcome 2:  Force Z makes it to Kota Baharu and attacks Kongo/Haruna with 1 or both of the Japanese BBs going down.
Outcome 3:  Force Z makes it to Kota Baharu and Kongo/Haruna turns the enitre force into a large artificial reef.
Outcome 4:  Force Z makes it to Kota Baharu and the surface combat is a draw with no ships sunk.  At which point outcome 1 happens as Force Z withdraws back to Singapore.
 
Granted this is the results with the AI controlling force Z.  I wanted to see how it would handle the scenario.

[bradfordkay]

When playing against a Japanese AI, I always send Force Z to contest the landings. Winston demands it..

Send a squadron or two of Buffalo to Kuantan to give them some air cover and they should be able to make it in to Khota Bahru. Whether they get out or not is another question, but they have gotten out safely three out of the four times I've done this (against the AI).

[Fallschirmjager]

I have had several opponents try to make Force Z a house rule to where I have to sortie it. I have never once agreed to it. Even if it has a very good surface battle it can never escape IJA bombers on Dec 8th and almost always winds up sunk by sometimes up to a dozen torpedo hits.
I don't think house rules should include giving your opponent 600 points right off the bat.

I always either sail south to the DEI to help out with the defense there or if I really want to play it safe I just sail it right into Colombo. From there early in the war I use it along the Burmese coast as heavy artillary in support of the British/Indian army.
As long as I keep system damage down and make sure TF speed is uniformly high I can always go in and bombard and get away before air attacks occur.

If I send it south to the DEI things get a little more dicey since your never really sure when your opponent is going to get a airfield open and pummel you.
There have been times before where I get cut off from India and the ships have to spend the first few years of the war fighting the war from Australia.

[bobogoboom]

i think force z is more useful sent to oz after the dei situation is hopeless.

[Q-Ball]

They both strike me as excellent CV escorts early on for the USN, the best ones you'll get. PoW starts with excellent AA armanent, and Repulse not far behind. Both are fast enough not to slow down CV's too much.

Later on, their night-fighting skills might become valuable also to the USN.

For these reasons I tend to think sending to OZ is better than keeping them in the IO. You can't really use them offensively until late '43 in IO, and by then you can likely move them back to the IO if you want to, IMO

[Feinder]

I usually bug it out, but keep it in SRA, albeit based at Java.  I do you it to strike in SRA, but I don't see any point in suiciding it on turn-1.  In my game vs. Bilbow, Repulse got nailed on a subsquent sorty in January '42, but PoW is still alive and shootin' in 08-43.
 
-F-

[Cap Mandrake]

Yes..Java is a good spot early on as long range search from Borneo and Malaya make it almost impossible for Jap carriers to sneak up and PoW and Repulse can be protected from the Bettys...and...not be spotted. From batavia she can threaten Jap landings on Sumatra or Western Borneo and from Soerabaja she can threaten Jap landings on Eastern Borneo or Timor.

In the game I'm in now, PoW and Repulse sank Nagato and stopped (for a while) a landing at Koepang. Repulse was later sunk trying to sneak back to Ceylon for repairs but PoW played a crucial role in defending Perth. She is still afloat in March 43.

[Q-Ball]

They are a credible DEI surface force, no doubt. The last thing you want as Japan is to have them pop up at Kendari or somewhere you are trying to unload an invasion force. Makes for a BAD night.

Force Z is only going to be as effective, however, as the Japanese player allows it to be. A quick landing at places like Kuching or Kendari can put enough Bettys in the air to dissuade the Allies from using Z. I wouldn't sail them anywhere within 10 hexes of a size-4 Japanese airfield, you're just asking for it. So if the Japanese player skillfully covers his landings to the next size-4 airbases, not much you can accomplish with them.

[rockmedic109]

I send them south and have them try to interdict the Kuching landings. Once Kuching falls, I pull them back to Java and eventually to Ceylon.

It really doesn't matter where she is, though. POW is always a torpedo magnet. I should be putting her into a CV tf so she can soak up torps meant for carriers. She's spent far more time in the repair yard than the high {or low} seas.

[Feinder]

Well, PoW has a LOT of AAA in 1942.  With her speed and AAA, she's a nice addition to a CV TF until you get NoCal and Wash.
 
-F-

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Well, PoW has a LOT of AAA in 1942.  With her speed and AAA, she's a nice addition to a CV TF until you get NoCal and Wash.

-F-

Exactly! This is why I would cautiously use them in DEI, but then send to OZ if I was playing Allies. They are the best AAA platform you get until mid-1942 at least.