Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale!

[Gem35]

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

$61 AUD for your CC Wacht Am Rhine digital download is going to buy me a nice GMT board game and a Lock n' Load Expansion this weekend. Sorry. Too much risk and not enough value.

Your SSG prices have always made them too risky for me. $53 AUD for the now old and defunct Battlefront digital download?[X(] You gotta be kidding! It's $60 in my local store right now with a manual - and it hasn't sold for months.

I have to laugh, since I keep my games original box/pkg... looking at Battlefront when I bought it in 1990's or maybe 80's sticker on it is 64.95 USD

Don't know what it been in that times AUD, but with both adjusted for inflation, seems to me it should be probably alot higher then $53-60 AUD

Grigsbys original WITP was 69.95

Its 69.99 for Remake discounted to 48.99 Yet those 80's or 90's dollars would have it far higher...

Frankly the prices are good... Sure Digital downloading may also seem a cheaper way then boxed but I wonder what the costs are to run something like digital river and the cost to Matrix...

Servers, ISP fees, Maint, paying techs, etc must make it cost some for such likr DR... or any company running own website.

What is the use , the folks who are don't like the prices would most likely find something else to complain about. They are just here to argue.[:)]

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Gem35

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

$61 AUD for your CC Wacht Am Rhine digital download is going to buy me a nice GMT board game and a Lock n' Load Expansion this weekend. Sorry. Too much risk and not enough value.

Your SSG prices have always made them too risky for me. $53 AUD for the now old and defunct Battlefront digital download?[X(] You gotta be kidding! It's $60 in my local store right now with a manual - and it hasn't sold for months.

I have to laugh, since I keep my games original box/pkg... looking at Battlefront when I bought it in 1990's or maybe 80's sticker on it is 64.95 USD

Don't know what it been in that times AUD, but with both adjusted for inflation, seems to me it should be probably alot higher then $53-60 AUD

Grigsbys original WITP was 69.95

Its 69.99 for Remake discounted to 48.99 Yet those 80's or 90's dollars would have it far higher...

Frankly the prices are good... Sure Digital downloading may also seem a cheaper way then boxed but I wonder what the costs are to run something like digital river and the cost to Matrix...

Servers, ISP fees, Maint, paying techs, etc must make it cost some for such likr DR... or any company running own website.

What is the use , the folks who are don't like the prices would most likely find something else to complain about. They are just here to argue.[:)]

@ Cmdrcain - You bought a 2007 game (SSG's Battlefront) in 1990? Read my post properly.

@ Gem 35 - I bought John Tiller's Campaign Series. What have you bought this Matrix Xmas Sale? Read my post before you write insults.

What are your bona fides to the hobby this year Gem 35? Here are mine:

Total Board wargame purchases: $1510 AUD Total PC wargame purchaes: $250 AUD Total Matrix Games purchased: 3 (Commander Napoleon, GG's War Between the States, JT's Campain Series).

You bet I've earned the right to post, praise and complain. Come on - what have you given to the hobby this year?

[06 Maestro]

Matrix Guy's

Thanks for this Holiday sale.



I will finally pick up FOF and JT's Campaign Series (I was a fan of JT CS games years ago). I will get one more for my son-maybe I can break him away from FPS types. If I can manage to make a command decision, I will also pick one ancients game-tough choices.

It is not possible to satisfy everyone all the time, but you can come close sometimes-great sale.

[Gem35]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

ORIGINAL: Gem35

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain



I have to laugh, since I keep my games original box/pkg... looking at Battlefront when I bought it in 1990's or maybe 80's sticker on it is 64.95 USD

Don't know what it been in that times AUD, but with both adjusted for inflation, seems to me it should be probably alot higher then $53-60 AUD

Grigsbys original WITP was 69.95

Its 69.99 for Remake discounted to 48.99 Yet those 80's or 90's dollars would have it far higher...

Frankly the prices are good... Sure Digital downloading may also seem a cheaper way then boxed but I wonder what the costs are to run something like digital river and the cost to Matrix...

Servers, ISP fees, Maint, paying techs, etc must make it cost some for such likr DR... or any company running own website.

What is the use , the folks who are don't like the prices would most likely find something else to complain about. They are just here to argue.[:)]

@ Cmdrcain - You bought a 2007 game (SSG's Battlefront) in 1990? Read my post properly.

@ Gem 35 - I bought John Tiller's Campaign Series. What have you bought this Matrix Xmas Sale? Read my post before you write insults.

What are your bona fides to the hobby this year Gem 35? Here are mine:

Total Board wargame purchases: $1510 AUD Total PC wargame purchaes: $250 AUD Total Matrix Games purchased: 3 (Commander Napoleon, GG's War Between the States, JT's Campain Series).

You bet I've earned the right to post, praise and complain. Come on - what have you given to the hobby this year?

I earned the right to post just as you have, if you have bought games from the holiday sale I'll give you a hug. Seems a bit awkward to complain about Matrix games because If I have just bought War in the Pacific, perhaps I should pay Matrix for the years and years of enjoyment. I don't need a holiday sale to give my hard earned money to Matrix. If i feel I want to buy a game, I will. You also won't ever see me complain about a few dollars, but hey, feel free my friend.

[Erik Rutins]

Let's all just relax - group hug folks, we love ya!

[Gem35]

Yessir. I appologize to anyone I may have rubbed the wrong way. I am here to offer any help/advice, etc. Sometimes I can open my mouth before I think about the ramifications. Above all I am here to promote one of the best forums on the internet. Happy holidays and no hard feelings to all of you.[:)]

[Hertston]

With apologies for dragging this up again I would point out that as of 17 December Steam sales to UK customers are now priced in the fashion I suggested earlier was appropriate to current market and economic conditions.   Their UK prices, VAT inclusive, now reflect those seen on UK store shelves - indeed in some cases they are actually cheaper.  For example, Left 4 Dead is £26.99.  CoD:WaW £29.99, GTA4 £26.99 and so on.   Their actual policy seems to be

1.  For mainstream releases, UK 'shelf' price (not 'RRP', note)

2.  For indie releases, approximate currency conversion from $US but to include VAT.

At least somebody has wised up.  Maybe somebody 'whined' at them until they listened... or maybe they just checked their sales figures?   

 

[Erik Rutins]

Hertston,

I still don't see how a direct price conversion from US prices is unfair to anyone, especially when it's been in the UK's favor for months if not years and the change to parity happened in conjunction with a 30% off sale. The vast majority of our games never went to retail in Europe and don't have a "UK Shelf Price", nor are they mass market games that benefit significantly from economies of scale. They have one price which we charge to all our customers worldwide, based on direct currency conversion.

Regards,

- Erik

[Hertston]

Hi Erik,

I'm not claiming anything is 'unfair' and never have done. I'll happily acknowledge that exchange rates obviously go and and down, and that sometimes non US customers 'win' and sometimes they 'lose'.

What I am talking about is a particular market at a particular time. No, most of your games don't have a 'UK shelf price'.. the only ones I can think off are the AGEOD games, albeit with a different publisher. BoA, 2 for example, is priced at £19.99 VAT inclusive (less than half what you are currently selling it for). I believe in supporting both developers directly and yourselves, but not to that extent. What does usually have a 'UK shelf price', though, are alternative video games in competition with your own for our time and our money. That now includes something very significant that it didn't two days ago; the entire Steam catalogue.

The point I am desperately trying to get across is not that there is an 'unfair' situation that requires whining about and that life consequently sucks, but that your products are currently uncompetitive in the UK market. Instead of paying more for a Matrix product, I (and others) will most likely buy something else instead. Instead of reduced profit, you make no profit. Nothing will stop me buying the Matrix games I really want badly; BftB springs to mind. But a year ago I might, and probably would, have picked up titles like Wacht am Rhein (as I did your other two CC games), World War One or Napoleon at War as well. At present I won't, they just don't represent good value for money. You seem to be working under the assumption that people will keep on buying the same volume of games despite what is (to us) a dramatic price-hike. IMHO they won't, particularly in a recession.

Surely you can understand the sale has no appeal; sure games would be 30% cheaper than otherwise but the price now is generally similar to that on release and if I had really wanted those I would have bought them at the time. The sale is for the stuff you are unsure about, or just feel like spending a little money on yourself for a change.

Maybe I'm a one-off, I don't know. If your UK sales are the same volume as they were six months ago, feel free to ignore me. If not, you might want to consider why Steam have changed their pricing policy for that market.

[Erik Rutins]

Hertston,

To cut to the chase, you are suggesting that we make some kind of special decrease of our UK prices to detach them from our US (and worldwide) prices in order to match mass market retail shelf pricing? How would this be fair to anyone outside the UK? Do you think we sell the same level of units as most retail shelf titles, such that it would make sense for us and our developers to do that?

I'm sorry to hear that you are looking elsewhere for your gaming and I appreciate that you're giving us what you feel is important and urgent advice. However, keep in mind that economies of scale don't apply to wargaming as they do to many other gaming genres. We can only go so far down in pricing before we should be fired for business incompetence, as we'd put ourselves out of business. The fact is that the pricing needs to stay where it is (or go higher) in order to both keep our developers ahead of their bills and fund future wargame development.

There just comes a point where every customer has to decided if a game is worth the price we're asking and if they'd like to see more games from a particular developer/publisher. As long as enough customers accept the prices that are required for wargames to continue to be developed and published, there will be wargames in abundance. If that stops, so will the wargames. Wargames by and large can't make their development cost back at a "budget" price and frankly overall wargame prices should probably be higher if we want to continue to advance the art of wargame design and development.

For sake of argument, because you can get a copy of "Monopoly" at a store for $19.99, do you expect the latest board wargame from GMT to be priced the same? Do you understand why it can't be? If you are a wargamer, buying and playing Monopoly is not going to be as satisfying as buying and playing that new wargame. How much is that worth to you?

Regards,

- Erik

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

To cut to the chase, you are suggesting that we make some kind of special decrease of our UK prices to detach them from our US (and worldwide) prices in order to match mass market retail shelf pricing?

No. I'm suggesting that you set prices seperately for each market, according to the pricing history of, and prevailing conditions and expectations within each market, at least in the short term. I would not anticipate pricing to match mass market shelf pricing as your sales volumes are much lower, but I would anticipate prices not totally out of step with it.

How would this be fair to anyone outside the UK? Do you think we sell the same level of units as most retail shelf titles, such that it would make sense for us and our developers to do that?

I fail to see how it would be unfair as, for example, nobody in the US would be paying any more. In both cases, in terms of our pay packets, we would be paying much the same as we always have.

I'm sorry to hear that you are looking elsewhere for your gaming and I appreciate that you're giving us what you feel is important and urgent advice. However, keep in mind that economies of scale don't apply to wargaming as they do to many other gaming genres. We can only go so far down in pricing before we should be fired for business incompetence, as we'd put ourselves out of business. The fact is that the pricing needs to stay where it is (or go higher) in order to both keep our developers ahead of their bills and fund future wargame development.

I'm not looking 'elsewhere' any more than I always have, and there are a couple of Matrix titles I will most certainly buy. But at current prices I will buy fewer titles, yes.

I don't follow your argument regarding pricing. Or at least I do, but I don't see how it is relevant. IMVHO a price reduction to something more competitive will increase your profits rather than reduce them, i.e additional sales volume will more than compensate for the reduction in profit for each unit. I am making a big assumption there, true, and you will have the figures and I don't. If that assumption is wrong, fair enough.. I have no case. But it does seem that the folks at Steam agree with me.

There just comes a point where every customer has to decided if a game is worth the price we're asking and if they'd like to see more games from a particular developer/publisher. As long as enough customers accept the prices that are required for wargames to continue to be developed and published, there will be wargames in abundance. If that stops, so will the wargames. Wargames by and large can't make their development cost back at a "budget" price and frankly overall wargame prices should probably be higher if we want to continue to advance the art of wargame design and development.

I accept that. I'm only asking you to consider the possibility that significant price hikes (as they appear to us) must hurt sales. It's not a case of a 'budget price', it is what is to us the same price. No matter how much you may want to support wargames developers, if you have only so much money available for games you will buy fewer of them if their prices increase. And if, like me, other gaming genres also appeal on occasion, they are likely toi appeal even more as they get relatively cheaper. That now includes not only major releases I can buy in stores, but a substantial amount of indie stuff from Steam.

For sake of argument, because you can get a copy of "Monopoly" at a store for $19.99, do you expect the latest board wargame from GMT to be priced the same? Do you understand why it can't be? If you are a wargamer, buying and playing Monopoly is not going to be as satisfying as buying and playing that new wargame. How much is that worth to you?

It is not, sticking with your metaphor, that the latest wargame from GMT costs more than Monopoly. It's that the latest wargame from GMT costs substantially more than the previous wargame from GMT while the price of Monopoly remains unchanged. Not only that; this year's flavour of the month in family board gaming is the same price as Monopoly. And Monopoly can be kind of fun, after all..

[wargamerjack]

Any chance of  War Between States and CNAW going of discount ?

Thanks

[Wilson ESQ]

Sean,

I just ordered a game at a Holiday price and i didn't get that price and I can't get your help desk to work at all. Please advise.

Wilson

[Erik Rutins]

Please note the Holiday Sale is now over. Thanks for making it a success and Happy New Year 2009!

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Matix Sucks

Don't waste your money. Matrix doesn't give any refunds for any reason and they have a history of shipping defective products. Check their refund policy, "all sales are final."

heeheehee. Gawd, you're funny. Try a different post that we all can laugh about. Better yet, ask for your money back. Oh, you didn't get charged to register and post on the forums, eh? Hahaha. Welcome, Sucks. Is that your real name or just the one your daddy gave ya?

[Terminus]

Probably our "friend" Ravinhood... Looks like his spelling...[8|]

[Erik Rutins]

Troll deleted.

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

@ Cmdrcain - You bought a 2007 game (SSG's Battlefront) in 1990? Read my post properly.

I have been playing Games since the 1980's...

Theres been other battlefront games in other times, SSG put out games in 80's..

Digging up history... note the Game is a C-64 game..

http://gotcha.classicgaming.gamespy.com/c64games.htm

Battlefront Electronic Arts C64 5.25" Disk Strategy MS



Alot of games on matrix are REMAKES of older games IE: War in the Pacific (WITP) and Uncommon Valor Have roots in Grigsbys older Pacific war and war in the South Pacific...

Battlefront has roots back to older versions.

[htuna]

Ever defiant, I took out my old West Front and installed it and it went fine. That was... until I tried to load a scenario when after the perfectly functioning menu and music I was told "NOT SUPPORTED ON WINDOWS NT"! - I'm running XP Pro.

So Erik, you've actually done the hobby a service here in getting the series to run on XP and Vista. I honestly didn't know that - YOU NEED BETTER ADVERTISING!

If you google you can find a patch for West Front and East Front for the "Not Supported Issue"... kind of a bummer to buy games again that you paid 50 bucks for 10 years ago..