What's next for Panzer Command?

[madorosh]

An indication of how Tobruk was regarded at the time can be garnered from a few salient historical points:

It came out in 1976, a year before Squad Leader. When SL came out, there were some good articles in The General comparing the two systems. PoE, I think the word you are looking for is "simulation" - whereas SL was a "game", and one aimed at miniatures players at that - it said so right in the ad copy of the day. Hal Hock and Don Greenwood duked it out in The General right after SL's release, as a matter of fact, talking about the relative merits of the two systems.

It is no secret who "won". Avalon Hill actually sold the rights to Tobruk back to Hal Hock. They lay dormant pretty much until Ray Tapio - who got into legal trouble for selling knock off ASL literature - decided he wanted to compete. He bought the rights from Tapio and created the Advanced Tobruk System. In other words, he made it more like Squad Leader. But he still can't make a go of it, because ever ATS module has a corresponding ASL-compatible module too. Yeah, sure, maybe he figures he can just double his money that way, but I figure if ATS was really the be-all, end-all on its own, he wouldn't have to go to the expense and trouble.

I never played Tobruk back in the day, but I have two copies on my bookshelf in my collection - one unpunched. I have no desire to learn to play based on what I've read of it. But I can understand the desire of the designer and the fans of the original to have a fidelity to realism that Squad Leader, frankly, lacks.

And I don't equate that to Combat Mission: Shock Force, to come back to that theme. There is such a thing as realism while maintaining an appropriate scale - CM:SF simply abandoned it. It would be like taking the board game Tobruk, and having crew counters for every single man in each AFV, and every man in every squad represented on the map. And not being able to give them orders. [:D]

[Toozasl]

I remember playing Tobruk when it first came out. I grew tired of all of the dice-rolling (put the amount of rolls required to play one game of Risk to shame) but still had some fun. Then Squad Leader came out and I never played Tobruk again.

[benpark]

The next PzC game will be set in Western Europe according to the Wargamer review of PzC:K:

http://www.wargamer.com/article/2544/PC ... kov?page=3

It doesn't say what years, but One can infer from the mention of lend-lease equipment being expanded upon in the next game that it will be 1944-45. If so, I hope they get hedgerows simulated correctly after the failure of too many games to do so.

[Toozasl]

West Front--cool! But...please let's not make the next one in the Desert! ETO or Blitzkrieg is on my wishlists!
So, how does one enlist for beta testing?

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Toozasl

West Front--cool! But...please let's not make the next one in the Desert! ETO or Blitzkrieg is on my wishlists!
So, how does one enlist for beta testing?

Advantages to the "the Desert:"

1) Much of the artwork for the Axis is already done.

2) Lots of nationalities involved to help promote sales.

3) Perfect environment for mobile operations, on larger maps.

4) 100% Lile Marlene compatible.

OTOH, Normandy could be very cool, only keep it out of them hedgerows, perhaps concentrate on attempts at breakout, like Goodwood and Cobra. Cry havoc, and let the Ronsons roll!!!

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
Advantages to the "the Desert:"

1) Much of the artwork for the Axis is already done.

2) Lots of nationalities involved to help promote sales.

3) Perfect environment for mobile operations, on larger maps.

4) 100% Lile Marlene compatible.

5) Italians!

6) A lot of tactical situations from Lybia 1940 to Tunisia 1943 (and possibility to mod BEF 1940, Balkans 1941 and Italy 1943).

[helm123456789]

Hopefully the Map Maker for PC comes in the dumbed down version for me.
 
Speaking of ASL.  What got me to drop back out of it for the last time was the scenarios.  Why not release all the previous scenarios created for the General.  I hate the hoarding mentallity of a portion of the community in regaurds to scenarios from the General.
 
 

[Ichirou989]

Wow, talk about a trip down memory lane! Good old Tobruk...or Terrible old Tobruk depending on your PoV. What I found interesting was that as I read down through each of these fine posts, it took me along through my own feelings and remembrances of the game and it's system. For me, I had some fun with Tobruk. I remembered my main irritation was of course the die rolling and rolling and rolling...some of which I've revisited again with some of the newer game designs of the last few years. I like tons of dice rolling even less now than I did then I'm afraid. And also the annoyance with the very limited scope of the Tobruk game, being really a focus on a couple of months in 1942 in and around the city. And like others, once Squad Leader came out, I don't think I ever played Tobruk again. Still, it was unique for it's time, and it certainly influenced other game designers over the years to at least some extent.

As for Panzer Command, I am very much in favor of Western Front or Desert. If I had to choose I would also prefer the Desert War over the hedgerow hell of Normandy, though the later battles of the breakout and beyond were very interesting. But, as you can tell, my love of the desert campaigns in North Africa go way back. I would really like to see this system in desert warfare, and I'd love to have a map/scenario editor available for those campaigns. Also it might be better to introduce the allies at an earlier point in the war first, back when they really started to learn armored warfare, rather than later in 1944. Not only that, but it follows from the time frame they are already working in right now with the two Eastern Front games, which will help as metioned before because of the axis units they already have available.

Oh, and PoE; I had to laugh when I read your idea at University regarding using the main frame to number-crunch for Tobruk. Similar thoughts had occured to me and my then gaming friends as well. [:D]

[invernomuto]

Up!
News on patch before Christmas holiday?

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: invernomuto

Up!
News on patch before Christmas holiday?

I suppose it's too late to hope for the next installment before Christmas.

Rick

[Erik Rutins]

I do expect to have an update before Christmas, but the next installment of the series is definitely well beyond that timeframe.

[madorosh]

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

ORIGINAL: Toozasl

West Front--cool! But...please let's not make the next one in the Desert! ETO or Blitzkrieg is on my wishlists!
So, how does one enlist for beta testing?

Advantages to the "the Desert:"

1) Much of the artwork for the Axis is already done.

2) Lots of nationalities involved to help promote sales.

3) Perfect environment for mobile operations, on larger maps.

4) 100% Lile Marlene compatible.

OTOH, Normandy could be very cool, only keep it out of them hedgerows, perhaps concentrate on attempts at breakout, like Goodwood and Cobra. Cry havoc, and let the Ronsons roll!!!

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

Desert would be much easier to model terrain and weather for, too, I suspect. Not that I think it would be a piece of cake, as the British say, but to truly do bocage correctly - well, no one ever has. Would be a coup to beat battlefront to the punch, though.

On the other hand, getting a true sandstorm modeled would be interesting, ditto all the stuff in the ASL playbook - deirs, wadis, hillocks, scrub, sangars, soft sand, the mechanical reliability of Axis vehicles early in the campaign, the large number of Allied vehicles in German service at various times (notably soft-skins), the effect of the sun on sighting, dust clouds, all that stuff.

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: Michael Dorosh
On the other hand, getting a true sandstorm modeled would be interesting, ditto all the stuff in the ASL playbook - deirs, wadis, hillocks, scrub, sangars, soft sand, the mechanical reliability of Axis vehicles early in the campaign,

With the desert we could have the possibility to get new models of all the early german tanks, those are from PC:WS are not so nice as the models from Mobius. (And I want italians! M13 rulez!)

[spellir74]

It would be real good if game editor had...

'If this than that' triggers for scenario builder. Example of how designer uses... Player takes certain hill area, or goes to certain point level, than that triggers some designer-planned contingency (enemy reinforcement type arrives from left map or whatever).

As said before, hidden goal flags (which are AI prompts) only design sees.
Turn limit of off board things. Eg werfer --or Art in general-- not available after a given turn (representig air strike at player rear --smokey wefer were vulnerable-- or other responsibilties of Art.

Message-orders or news coming from command or rear, arriving at some designer defined turn of game; pop up. Designer creates. This could be tied into "If this than that" triggers.

[RocketMan]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I do expect to have an update before Christmas, but the next installment of the series is definitely well beyond that timeframe.

Christmas is three days away. Is there any word on the update?

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: JMass
With the desert we could have the possibility to get new models of all the early german tanks, those are from PC:WS are not so nice as the models from Mobius. (And I want italians! M13 rulez!)

Thanks JMass. On my post release models I wasn't limited to the 1500 poly limit on release models. So I went wild!/[:D]
You could use the T26 as the model for a M13/40 mod.
I'll work up some stats for that to convert from PW scale to PCK scale.

Then you could fight some Matildas. Oh won't that be fun.[8|]

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: Mobius
Then you could fight some Matildas. Oh won't that be fun.[8|]

It it annoying to see shells bounce off Matildas, best fight Honeys, Crusaders, A13s...
[;)]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: RocketMan
Christmas is three days away. Is there any word on the update?

We won't make Christmas unfortunately, it will probably be a January update at this point. I was working on a beta installer yesterday and I expect to have that done over the holidays.

[kam99]

Hi Erik,

Is there any more news on the progress of the update?

kam

[RocketMan]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: RocketMan
Christmas is three days away. Is there any word on the update?

We won't make Christmas unfortunately, it will probably be a January update at this point. I was working on a beta installer yesterday and I expect to have that done over the holidays.

Three days left in January. Any word on the update?