Still can't figure out capital ship combat.

[Mazryonh]

I decided after a hiatus to give this game another try, after getting very frustrated with it. It seems that the frustrations are still there.

I thought it would be real fun to get into the bridge of a capital ship after I accumulated enough points from fighter combat, but unfortunately I can't seem to avoid getting slaughtered, or how the game seems to like giving you impossible missions as a routine occurrence.

First, there aren't as many missions as a capital ship captain as there were as a fighter pilot. Often it seems that there is only one mission, and often they seem impossible to win.

For instance, when I get the "escort a freighter" mission, fighters almost ALWAYS destroy it before I can even get within firing range to defend the freighter with my guns.

Next, even though the game is supposed to adapt itself to the kind of ship you're piloting, I can't believe that even though I'm piloting a frigate I often get asked to assault carrier or destroyer groups. That's definitely not in my department as a frigate captain; is there nothing I can do to keep advancing in the plot aside from transferring to another battle unit or just quitting the mission as soon as it's begun?

Then there's the problem with the friendly AI. I've often seen gung-ho captains try to take on ENTIRE DESTROYER GROUPS by themselves, and then get promptly slaughtered (they often don't even bother to try and fire their point defense batteries). This means I often get much fewer ships to work with than I would like to. I don't have enough points to assume command of the Carrier Battle Group yet; is there any way I can give orders to knock these captains out of their stupidity?

I paid 40 good dollars for this game in order to support the developer, so I'd like to make good use of them all. If anyone here has some good info, I'd gladly listen.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: Mazryonh

is there any way I can give orders to knock these captains out of their stupidity?

Yes. You can try various forms of communications. As leader of destroyer squadron (you can lead it even from squad's frigate), you can use mouse & menus for issuing orders. If you don't know how to do that, replay last tutorial mission. You can use radio (R key) to communicate with other ships outside your squadron, maybe even with friendly fighters. So with freighter escort missions, you can try to call for friendly ship (or fighter group) that is nearest the freighter to be escorted, and ask it to form up with the freighter. You should also be able to call for carrier and ask for reinforcements (fighters) to help out.

What comes to assaulting enemy carrier group, you don't have to do it all in the single mission. You can just fire off your missiles/torps at nearest enemy starship, retreat, quit mission, and try again in next mission with full load of new ordnance and repaired systems.

[wdboyd]

Deleted

[wdboyd]

Salutations,

It has always been easier to blame a game or simulations programming for ones lack of success than to admit to or realise ones own lack of knowledge, experiance or command imagination.

Please consider becoming thoroughly familiar of Chapter 07 of the Starshatter Manual. It will help your command and control abilites. After all, you are supposed to be a space fighter pilot or the commander of a space borne fleet capital ship or ships... you are not playing checkers in Starshatter.

Afterwards... go kick some Hegemony butts. [:D]

[Mazryonh]

I'm not blaming the game's programming, aside from its sometimes-atrocious AI.  If I wanted to stay a fighter pilot, for instance, there'd be nothing I could do aside from reloading a savegame and trying to save my allied capital ships, since I wouldn't be able to command them directly (and they'd STILL act suicidally).

There's also a disturbing problem with this game's point-defense weapons, your only salvation against enemy cap-ship missiles (sadly you cannot intercept fighter-borne anti-ship missiles).  For one thing, they rarely cover your front in a capship engagement (part of the reason why I chose to pilot a frigate), the AI on auto fires them without regard to conserving energy, and they're fairly short-ranged, even shorter than the launching range of fighter-borne anti-ship missiles!

I can partially fix the second problem with PDBs by setting them to manual, repeatedly targetting the closest hostile cap-ship missile, and firing them in bursts so I can preserve their maximum firing rate for as long as tactically possible, not simply emptying them until they start firing like bolt-action rifles, which is what the AI does repeatedly.  I can then set my lasers to auto, but what about my torpedoes, which are best used manually in order to conserve ammo until the enemy's PDBs are disabled?  If I switch to them I run the risk of setting my lasers back on manual again or leaving my PDBs offline at a critical moment since they're still stuck on manual until I take the time to move the mouse and set them to fire defensively again.

And how do I avoid being rendered defenseless by enemy laser fire?  I always raise my shields to maximum when closing to short range but even so I keep losing critical systems in moments.  I try to outflank the enemy ships but they easily turn towards me.

I haven't gotten very far through the game yet, but I'm already getting a bit leery of the Hegemony railguns.  Do they bypass shields?  Can they be intercepted?  Do they inflict systems damage?

[Mazryonh]

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Yes. You can try various forms of communications. As leader of destroyer squadron (you can lead it even from squad's frigate), you can use mouse & menus for issuing orders. If you don't know how to do that, replay last tutorial mission. You can use radio (R key) to communicate with other ships outside your squadron, maybe even with friendly fighters. So with freighter escort missions, you can try to call for friendly ship (or fighter group) that is nearest the freighter to be escorted, and ask it to form up with the freighter. You should also be able to call for carrier and ask for reinforcements (fighters) to help out.

Bad news. [:@]

I did play the last tutorial mission and yes, it did let me command ships and fighters.

Sadly, it won't let me do the same when I'm just a lowly frigate captain, not actually commanding the Archon carrier. I said before that I didn't have the points to join the carrier battle group, and now no matter what I do when I right click, I cannot directly command any fighters or capital ships, in my squadron or not. [&:]

I can communicate with them via radio, but unfortunately it's a much clumsier method of communication. I can't just ask them to do something by simply pointing and clicking (first on the ship being communicated, second on the target), I first have to personally target the object I want attacked/bracketed/defended, and THEN radio a ship/fighter group to carry out the task on my target. I waste precious seconds on that and at times can't even target what I want escorted if the target is friendly but is out of my personal sensor range (such as if I want another frigate to defend the Archon carrier), since pressing the U key won't target it. I can't even figure out how contact people on the radio if their radio numbers are higher than 9 on the list (there's no 10 or higher buttons on the numeric top row of keys, obviously), let alone how to ask the carrier for backup (I think it's only possible as a fighter pilot by pressing Alt + S by default).

Long story short, I could never seem to save that freighter as a frigate captain. On the rare occasions I could talk to some fighter pilots using the radio menu, I tried desperately to target the freighter and ask any available fighter groups to escort it, but they never arrived in time to defend it against the inevitable fighter barrage that came before I could even get close enough to fend them off.

I'm completely out of ideas.[&:] Can someone PLEASE help me?

[wdboyd]

Capital Ship Targeting Tips

The Insurgents ships are nearly immune to subsystem targeting aside from thier PDB systems. Their destroyers fusion reactors can sometimes be hit by attacking from the belly but this is rare.

The Insurgent frigates are almost totally immune from subsystem targeting. Simply Hammer away at them untill they explode.

The Hegemony Tiger class frigate is a pushover. Its fusion core is very exposed and can be hit from any side angle. Once the core is down, the shields drop and the ship is a sitting duck.

The most intimidating enemies you’re going to face are going to be the Hegemony destroyers and cruisers.

Volanaris class destroyer- If you can hit it from a flat 90' angle, you can occasionally take out its core and its shields will drop. You may even be able to take it out completely with a full barrage of grazers. Failing this, switch to the 2 forward lasers.

Once you see that laser 1 is down to 10% or so (or isn't taking any damage if your angle is off, immediately hit the ":" key and cycle to laser 2. Once its down to 10-0%, hit ":" again and finish off the volley on the ships torpedo system. Worst case scenario, you've taken out half its beam weapons as well as its torpedo capability. If you’re attacking from the nose, you can get each of these systems in a single volley. The ship is helpless and you can kill whatever else is shooting at you.

Broadsword class destroyer- These are tricky. While I have been able to make good core hits (and disable the ship) from about 95'-100' angle from the nose, this kind of sucess is rare. Generally it’s best to start hammering away at its forward beam weapons and torpedos.

If you have a side shot at the ship, hit its torpedos first. If you have a forward view, go for the beam weapons. Once these are down, you can take off the rail and pdb batteries on the top and tail. Finish with torpedos. Rinse and repeat. These craft usually come in packs, so be sure and bring a friend to get their attention first.

Hegemony Cruisers - There are two types. The tactics for both are similar. Attempt to come in at high speed and adjust your flight path to bring your ship under them. They have soft bottoms and their limited manuverability works in your favor.

The first type will have a single fusion reactor at its bottom center which can be hit from a pretty wide angle if you’re underneath. So, when you can see it, fire away. Once you start to see it fall, let your beams charge to full and fire a volley of torpedos. Follow this with the beams and the shields will drop just as your torpedos slam into the hull. Easy Kill.

The second type of cruiser has 2 fusion reactors. One is in the belly and one is along the bottom at the very end of the ship. The one aft is responsable for powering the ships shields.

If you can maneuver underneath and fire torpedos just before disabling it, you can often make an easy kill. Unfortunately the ship quickly regains its shield power when it switches to the second reactor. You will have a narrow opportunity to get torpedos away. The second core has about the same vulnerability angle, so line up shots and start hammering.

Carriers - carriers are tough. Don't expect to be able to damage anything other than its PDB systems, so save some torpedos to finish them off.

Choose either the bottom or top surface to attack and stick to it. Eliminate the batteries on the top or bottom and hammer it with torpedos.

You'll likely have to chase the carrier down when they jump away so be prepared for a hunt. Quantum to a system you think they might have jumped to. If it isn’t there, wait for your quantum-drive to recharge and jump again. When you find it you’ll likely have the carrier all to yourself since they don't seem to launch fighters after making a jump very often.

One very nice tactic is to set a navigation point near an enemy vessel. Set the speed to 750 or 1000 for a high speed attack run and then select "auto". You should appear around 55km out from your target and have just enough time to acquire and set a subsystem to target. You can use this tactic to come at enemies from the side/tail and get a jump on them.

Good luck Commander.

[Mazryonh]

ORIGINAL: wdboyd

Capital Ship Targeting Tips

Does your dismissal of my other questions regarding command and control means that I can't save the freighter in those types of missions or can't co-ordinate a DESRON very well until I take command of the carrier battle group? [:(]

[wdboyd]

... It means I'm kind enough to provide you some helpful information but I'm not going to hold your hand and provide you any "walkthroughs" or "cheat codes".

I don't mind handing somebody some toilet paper... but I draw the line at wiping their arse for them.

Hint: You don't have to succeed in every mission to progress through the campaign(s).
Hint: One may be able to request a Transfer at times.

Others have competed the campaign(s). If they could... so can you. [:)]

[Mazryonh]

ORIGINAL: wdboyd
I don't mind handing somebody some toilet paper... but I draw the line at wiping their arse for them.

Yes, but at the same time this game is a fairly jarring removal from the norm I'm used to. You might think of it as simple as "wiping your arse," but in my case it's a bit like trying to navigate a public bathroom I've never been in before, and the lights are off. First I gotta find the toilet paper and then I gotta find the place to dump it in after wiping. I'm asking so people can help "shed a light" on what is quite alien to me right now.

The closest game I've ever played to this is Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, which was better and worse at the same time. For one thing, device repair and targetting is much simpler. In that game, once your sensors successfully scanned an enemy ship's devices, you just clicked on the component you wanted disabled, and then bring as many device disabling weapons to bear on that ship as you could. Device repair was as simple as bringing up an engineering panel that wasn't full-screen and clicking to assign repair priority, so it let you see what was still going on instead of blinding you to the action as this game does. It also didn't break down the devices into too many categories, some of them taking upwards of hours to completely repair. At the same time, however, you couldn't personally command fighters or capital ships like you can in this game.

ORIGINAL: wdboyd
Hint: You don't have to succeed in every mission to progress through the campaign(s).

I suppose this is as close as you'll come to admitting that some missions due to unique circumstances from earlier actions in the dynamic campaign can render some missions impossible to complete.

ORIGINAL: wdboyd
One may be able to request a Transfer at times.

I knew this already. Still, I tried transferring to a DESRON's destroyer and didn't get the C&C abilities of a Carrier. I suppose it was the game developer's intention to maximize the tactical aspect of the game and not the fighter or capital ship combat, which frankly diminishes the game in my view since fleshing them out entirely would have made for a much more enjoyable and varied experience. The game advertises itself to be a good one for fighter combat only, or capital ship only, but there's a lot of things I addressed in a previous thread that it's missing.

So maybe I'll make my questions simpler:

Is there ANY way I can get the Carrier's C&C abilities (not its fighter co-ordination abilities) without actually transferring to the Carrier itself, since I want to keep piloting capital ships and do not have the points to assume command of the fleet?

Is there ANY way I can communicate to ships on the radio list with a listed number higher than 9?

Is there ANY way I can fire a capital ship's PDB systems in bursts automatically, so that they retain their highest firing rates for the longest tactical time, instead of getting stuck with a very slow firing rate after only a couple of seconds of firing as they do now? I've already explained the disadvantages of firing them manually; the PDBs won't split fire, I can only target missiles so fast, and sometimes I lock onto a missile instead of a wave of fighters.

How do I outflank a ship when alone? I've played the advanced starship combat tutorial mission several times and the Wolf destroyer always manages to detect me and always keeps its deadly bow pointed at me. Should I go to lower EMCON? Try to come at them from farther away? Something else?

What are the characteristics of Hegemony railguns (the ones that fire large red projectiles)?

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: Mazryonh

Is there ANY way I can get the Carrier's C&C abilities (not its fighter co-ordination abilities) without actually transferring to the Carrier itself, since I want to keep piloting capital ships and do not have the points to assume command of the fleet?

From my past experiences with Starshatter 3.8.x, 3.9.x and 4.x (haven't ever played 5.x The Gathering Storm), you should have full C&C over the entire DESRON group you're assigned. If not, request transfer to first (lead) ship instead frigate. If it doesn't work... dunno.

Is there ANY way I can communicate to ships on the radio list with a listed number higher than 9?

Take mouse, and try with it. It didn't work before, but it might been fixed now. Does it work?

Is there ANY way I can fire a capital ship's PDB systems in bursts automatically, so that they retain their highest firing rates for the longest tactical time, instead of getting stuck with a very slow firing rate after only a couple of seconds of firing as they do now? I've already explained the disadvantages of firing them manually; the PDBs won't split fire, I can only target missiles so fast, and sometimes I lock onto a missile instead of a wave of fighters.

Hit W key. That should brin up weapons menu at top of the screen. You can assign your PDB firing against incoming torpedoes by hitting DEF below PDB (might not shoot down missiles). You can assign any listed weapons fire automatically at locked targets by choosing AUTO below the weapon. WARNING: they can fire even your own ships if you lock on them! If want fire weapons yourself, click the 3rd choice, OFF I think.

When weapon's rate of fire is reduced, it just means it needs to reload.

How do I outflank a ship when alone?

That can be tricky. One thing that works for me, is to fly straight at the ship. Distance needs to be closed fast, but at the same time there is need to keep enemy in own sights while attempting throw yourself out of enemy's sight to its dead zones. You can start by practicing capship piloting with FLCS in Manual mode. It can be tricky! When you get hang of it, you just might learn to close the distance fast, fly past the enemy without overshooting too much, and still keep it in your sight all the time while staying at its dead zone. Use PDBs in DEF mode, and kill main weapons with barrage of your main guns and missiles/torps (if available) before you fly past. It goes something like this:
1. Accelerate STRAIGHT at the enemy
2. Deaccelerate at some point, so you don't overshoot too much (just a little)
3. Choose sub system (heavy weapon, for example), and fire chronus of warheads and energy weapons. If there is time, choose another subsystem, and fire again
4. Fly past the enemy, either above or below. Turn your ship so you have enemy in your front at all times. Use FLCS in Manual, and use thrusters to avoid collision and minimize overshoot
5. Use FLCS Manual and thrusters to keep yourself at enemy's dead zones. Target FUSION subsystem, and FIRE ALL YOU GOT! (PDB & warhead launchers in AUTO)