AI for MWIF - Yugoslavia

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: brian brian
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I like that defense, but with a change. I put the 4-3 north of Zagreb, both 3 factor units in Zagreb, and the CAV to the south.
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* Zagreb defence 39+ G

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: composer99

If Germany DoWs Yugo in S/O 1939, it's to align Rumania, which nullifies the threat of a USSR Bessarabia claim. The Rumanian units can all stack on the Yugoslav border. They could walk into an undefended Belgrade. They cannot, however, attack the city as it extends past their supply lines.

Maybe this would suffice?

* Zagreb and Belgrade defence 39+ D

[composer99]

The Zagreb Defence 39+ G looks nice.
 
One additional variant you may wish to include is to have the three units spread out in the mountain hexes adjacent to Zagreb (to the northwest, west and southwest).
 
If the Axis have relatively light forces deployed in theatre (say, less than 6 corps and no more than 1 bomber at the time of the DoW), they will have a hard time breaking through the front, especially if the weather turns bad, which means they could be in for a tough slog (unless they align Hungary), especially once the Yugo reserves arrive.

[paulderynck]

Except as the axis I clear the rail line through Poland so I can rail an HQ into Rumania on Impulse 3 which allows the Rumanians to attack a weakly held Zagreb. Now the Russians can stop this by claiming Eastern Poland but often wait until Impulse 4 so that the Polish pilots can escape to England. If the Polish planes don't set up deep in Eastern Poland they can usually be killed.

So there should be an AI check of whether the axis can rail into Rumania.

Putting a unit in Zagreb is for sure a good idea. It does encourage the alignment of Hungary or Italy (and if Italy - that's another US entry roll whether or not they DoW on the same impulse as Germany). But the main defense should be centered on Belgrade, as it leads to Germany spending the longest time possible conquering Yugo and to having stronger forces further from the French border.

[composer99]

As with any tactic, there is no one-size-fits-all way of doing it.
 
The biggest issue is weather and turn length. If these go Germany's way in 1939, the Yugoslavs, no matter how cleverly set-up they are, will fall easily. If either is not to Germany's satisfaction, the Yugos will hold during the winter, hopefully tying down an HQ, 1-2 bombers and 1-2 other quality corps unless Germany aligns Hungary to bypass the mountains.
 
Also, keep in mind that Germany has no obligation to press the attack in Yugoslavia. The Germans could declare war, set up the Rumanians to screen their own country, screen the Yugos from entering Austria, ensure the free flow of the It resource from Pola to Trieste, and then sit tight until they have finished in France.

[Ullern]

ORIGINAL: composer99

The Zagreb Defence 39+ G looks nice.

One additional variant you may wish to include is to have the three units spread out in the mountain hexes adjacent to Zagreb (to the northwest, west and southwest).

If the Axis have relatively light forces deployed in theatre (say, less than 6 corps and no more than 1 bomber at the time of the DoW), they will have a hard time breaking through the front, especially if the weather turns bad, which means they could be in for a tough slog (unless they align Hungary), especially once the Yugo reserves arrive.

I also like the 39+ G.
One thing to improve on:
If playing with the oil rule, which have been common, having the HQ in a city you must hold is a bad idea. I would have changed the HQ and the 4-3 INF. Possibly I would have done as composer99 suggests here to have the units spread out, the 4-3 in the city, the HQ north-west and the 3-3 west. (I think that aligning Hungary in 39 is a bad idea for Germany.)


One thing I miss is a set up for this case:
The Allies wants to DOW, just because the axis wants will be able to align Yugo soon anyway, and maybe the allies get something out of DOWing, which can be something like: an easily taken port (just to have a port and air-base there), for strategic bombing, or just to force the Axis to set up sooner, so they see where the units are headed.

Also there is the case with a heavily defended coastline in Europe forces the allies to seek the weakest point, which may be to get ports in Yugoslavia if Yugoslavia for some reasons are not into the war yet. (You would probably think that, why don't you just invade Italy and align Yugoslavia instead? But I have seen Italy stacked with corps in every single coastal hex. It is possible! Also aligning Yugoslavia needs French or CW corps. American won't do. So in rare cases an Western Allied invasion may happen.)

Both these cases points to the need for a port defense set up (possibly with single units in Zagreb and Belgrade if relevant PARA drop threat is valid.)

[brian brian]

I don't find defending Belgrade worthwhile. Defending Zagreb makes it more difficult for the Germans to use the Rumanian units for losses. If they align Hungary, it is better for the Russians. Defending Zagreb is also better if the Russians want to go on an adventure in Bulgaria.

Ullern makes a good point about HQs and an oil rule, but it's hard to get around it's unique vulnerability to becoming permanently disorganized no matter where it is placed, so I still put it in Zagreb. Perhaps it would be better to the south and then switch the units in Zagreb later depending on what the Germans do.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I don't find defending Belgrade worthwhile. Defending Zagreb makes it more difficult for the Germans to use the Rumanian units for losses. If they align Hungary, it is better for the Russians. Defending Zagreb is also better if the Russians want to go on an adventure in Bulgaria.

Ullern makes a good point about HQs and an oil rule, but it's hard to get around it's unique vulnerability to becoming permanently disorganized no matter where it is placed, so I still put it in Zagreb. Perhaps it would be better to the south and then switch the units in Zagreb later depending on what the Germans do.

The trouble with Zagreb is the defenders are more vulnerable to ground strikes on the Surprise impulse since the remaining German air force is still better than what the Rumanians have, and it gives the Germans an extra impulse (essentially) to start reducing the Yugo forces.

Mind you I remember a game where the Bessarabia gambit was in play but Russia was out of position for demanding it, so the Axis DoWed Yugo and aligned Hungary on Impulse 3 and then Rumania on Impulse 5.

[composer99]

One unit in Belgrade is probably still worth risking having the Germans rail in an HQ in SO1939 - it's an HQ not being used that turn (or next turn, and maybe not until the spring if the Zagreb attacks fail) against the Western Allied major powers. If by chance the USSR was able to occupy Eastern Poland right away, all the better (for Yugoslavia).
 
The big thing about defending around Zagreb is the mountains, an advantage that the bombers do not easily overcome, and with the Yugoslavs as weak as they are one unit in the mountains is as good as two in the city, even flipped. The exception is that the Germans don't need to roll as high to take a hex, but since the Yugoslavs are playing a delaying game, taking up German time or diverting German HQs/planes/key units are more valuable than saving their army.

[Ullern]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I don't find defending Belgrade worthwhile. Defending Zagreb makes it more difficult for the Germans to use the Rumanian units for losses. If they align Hungary, it is better for the Russians. Defending Zagreb is also better if the Russians want to go on an adventure in Bulgaria.

Ullern makes a good point about HQs and an oil rule, but it's hard to get around it's unique vulnerability to becoming permanently disorganized no matter where it is placed, so I still put it in Zagreb. Perhaps it would be better to the south and then switch the units in Zagreb later depending on what the Germans do.

Sure, but one of my thumb rules is never to place a surprised HQ together with another unit. One of the most dire limitations of Germany is air missions. If they will spend one to GS a single stacked HQ, that's fine with me.
Another option would be to switch the unit in Belgrad with the HQ. (Too far away for German GS.)

[npilgaard]

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Yugoslavia setup AI

Once again very impressive work!

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: ullern
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Also there is the case with a heavily defended coastline in Europe forces the allies to seek the weakest point, which may be to get ports in Yugoslavia if Yugoslavia for some reasons are not into the war yet. (You would probably think that, why don't you just invade Italy and align Yugoslavia instead? But I have seen Italy stacked with corps in every single coastal hex. It is possible! Also aligning Yugoslavia needs French or CW corps. American won't do. So in rare cases an Western Allied invasion may happen.)

Both these cases points to the need for a port defense set up (possibly with single units in Zagreb and Belgrade if relevant PARA drop threat is valid.)

I guess a Invasion defence could suffice against Western Allied invasion plans…

Yugoslavia setup AI
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Yugoslavia has three basic setups:
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Yugoslavia has three extreme setups:
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* Invasion Defence:
The Yugoslavian land forces are setup on or close the cost guarding against an Invasion from the Italian Sea.

When a setup is used
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* Invasion Defence:
Is consider to be used when A

A) Threat of invasion from Italian Sea.



* Invasion Defence 39+ A

[peskpesk]

* Invasion Defence 39+ B

[peskpesk]

* Invasion Defence 40+ A

[peskpesk]

* Invasion Defence 40+ B

[peskpesk]

* Invasion Defence 41+ A

[peskpesk]

* Invasion Defence 41+ B

[peskpesk]

* Invasion Defence 44+ A

[composer99]

If the only possible line of attack is via invasion, arguably the AI should attempt to make sure that every coastal hex is either covered by a unit or within the ZoC of a unit so that the invaders must contend with some sort of notional unit even when the Yugoslavs are surprised.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: composer99

If the only possible line of attack is via invasion, arguably the AI should attempt to make sure that every coastal hex is either covered by a unit or within the ZoC of a unit so that the invaders must contend with some sort of notional unit even when the Yugoslavs are surprised.

I agree. If the threat is from the Allied side, then a coastal invasion seems like the only possibility. If the Allies hold any of the countries adjacent to Yugoslavia, they could simply try to align it. That would be much easier than trying to conquer it.

Perhaps one unit could be held back from the coast, as a reserve, but the others should be in a coastal hex.