awesome

[lawbreaker]

the wife and i have been playing this game for weeks now. we never expected it to be this cool. she usually plays the south and i play the north. we have a tendency to completely ignore the eastern theater, being from indiana and all. the detailed battles are awesome, and it's cool how you can see the perks you buy on the brigades. this is definitely our favorite game right now, and will be for a long time more than likely. thanks for making it, and we hope it sells enough to justify expansions and sequels and all that. we do have one mild complaint though, we just read in one of the threads that you are considering making an expansion with just the eastern theater. what the? it wouldn't be very fun to play as the north, what with the new yorkers constantly running off the field an all. please keep it so we can still play the western theater, you know, where the war was actually won. because lets be honest, if the eastern army was ever hit with the fury of an assault like albert sidney johnston's at shiloh that early in the war, they would have ran all the way to canada.[:D] so please don't leave us out, like the new york publishing houses have done for the last hundred years. and anybody who is still on the fence about this game, buy it, it is definitely the coolest civil war game on the market. period.

[Gil R.]

because lets be honest, if the eastern army was ever hit with the fury of an assault like albert sidney johnston's at shiloh that early in the war, they would have ran all the way to canada.

As a (displaced) New Yorker I think you're wrong: what would have happened is that as the men ran off the battlefield they would have kept running, until they encountered George McClellan miles away from the battle and largely oblivious to it, and the sight of their beloved general would have rallied them, leading them to turn around and charge back into the battle and trounce the by-then exhausted Confederate pursuit columns. And McClellan would have let the world know how he single-handedly won the battle against staggering odds. Sounds about right? (I've been doing a lot of reading about the Peninsula Campaign, in case you can't tell. And no, don't be paranoid: this isn't research for the eastern-theater-only game that has been considered.)

Thanks for your comments -- definitely good to see.

[lawbreaker]

this is the same mclellan who was replaced twice by lincoln for being at best overly cautious, and at worse treacherous, right? despite the fact that most civil war histories have been written by new yorkers, you can still gain truth by reading between the lines. why did mclellan leave the road to washington open? why did he overestimate lee's numbers so highly? surely he knew that lee didn't have 200,000 men right? why when porter was attacked did he not put in his whole army? why when the indiana boys found the whole southern attack plans before antietam did he not use it to destroy lee piece meal? why did he not attack with his whole army at the same time at antietam, when to have done so would have surely been the end of lee's army? why when he was replaced the first time, did his allies, namely porter, move so slow to help pope at the second bull run? new yorkers hated abraham lincoln. remember the draft riots? with all do respect for your opinion, if it wasn't for us midwesterners winning the war, the new englanders would still be intrenched at petersburg still today.[:D]

[Jonah]

ORIGINAL: lawbreaker

the wife and i have been playing this game for weeks now. we never expected it to be this cool. she usually plays the south and i play the north. we have a tendency to completely ignore the eastern theater, being from indiana and all. the detailed battles are awesome, and it's cool how you can see the perks you buy on the brigades. this is definitely our favorite game right now, and will be for a long time more than likely. thanks for making it, and we hope it sells enough to justify expansions and sequels and all that. we do have one mild complaint though, we just read in one of the threads that you are considering making an expansion with just the eastern theater. what the? it wouldn't be very fun to play as the north, what with the new yorkers constantly running off the field an all. please keep it so we can still play the western theater, you know, where the war was actually won. because lets be honest, if the eastern army was ever hit with the fury of an assault like albert sidney johnston's at shiloh that early in the war, they would have ran all the way to canada.[:D] so please don't leave us out, like the new york publishing houses have done for the last hundred years. and anybody who is still on the fence about this game, buy it, it is definitely the coolest civil war game on the market. period.

While I agree with you that the war was won in the west, vicksburg in paticular, but you mentioned the point on sidney johnston. I would reverse that: If the army of the cumberland and army of the tennessee ever faced the Army of Northern Virginia, THEY would run. It's no coincidance that the only victory for the Army of Tennessee was when the ANV was present with Longstreet's corps.

But besides that I fully agree with you. FoF is the first game to give full justice to the west, which is needed. The vastness of Tennessee, Georgia and Mississippi are made theatres of operation, not just the 'lesser areas'.

Glad you enjoy the game, it really is the best ACW game out there.

[lawbreaker]

 granted longstreets boys did rout the troops at chickamauga, but he was extremely fortunate to have sent his corp in exactly where rosecrans had just moved troops out. his troops entered a hole in the northern lines. when the yanks realised they had rebs in their rear they had no choice but to redeploy. still, thomas and his boys held off the rebel army by themselves for the rest of the day, earning himself his rock of chickamauga nick name. those midwesterners had rebs advancing on two sides, and still stood. even longstreet, and one of his division commanders, spoke openly how they never saw yankees stand like these yankees were. its no coincidence that longstreet soon after returned to the east. thats why when ol sam hood came west, he attempted his hard charging ways that were so succesful in the east, and failed miserably. not to take away from the fighting spirit of the rebs. us midwesterners just had the same fighting spirit. in that situation, numbers naturally prevailed. after shermans march to the sea, and northern advance thru the carolinas, they were headed straight for lee. he split. some generals recommended attacking shermans boys. who knows what would have been the outcome of those two armies colliding with sky high morale. it would have been the superbowl, thats for sure. but you are absolutely correct, this game rocks. every strategy gamer should own it. ofcourse i'm fortunate enough to have a wife who loves these kinds of games as much as i do. so i've never played single player.

[Rexor]

ORIGINAL: lawbreaker

this is the same mclellan who was replaced twice by lincoln for being at best overly cautious, and at worse treacherous, right? despite the fact that most civil war histories have been written by new yorkers, you can still gain truth by reading between the lines. why did mclellan leave the road to washington open? why did he overestimate lee's numbers so highly? surely he knew that lee didn't have 200,000 men right? why when porter was attacked did he not put in his whole army? why when the indiana boys found the whole southern attack plans before antietam did he not use it to destroy lee piece meal? why did he not attack with his whole army at the same time at antietam, when to have done so would have surely been the end of lee's army? why when he was replaced the first time, did his allies, namely porter, move so slow to help pope at the second bull run? new yorkers hated abraham lincoln. remember the draft riots? with all do respect for your opinion, if it wasn't for us midwesterners winning the war, the new englanders would still be intrenched at petersburg still today.[:D]

What do you have against New Yorkers? Take it down a notch.

[lawbreaker]

well, read any civil war book published in new york, and find anything about the service performed by the troops of the state of indiana. oh wait you can't? hmm..., that's odd huh? so then i guess the question is, what do new yorkers have against the state of indiana? take it down a notch. i started this thread to say we loved the game. but since you asked what i have against new yorkers, i guess i have no choice but to answer. ill answer with a question. why do new yorkers feel that both presidential candidates should be new yorkers? hillary clinton and rudy giuliani. why do new yorkers want the third party candidate to be a new yorker? michael bloomberg. why does the mayor of new york city, michael bloomberg, go around the nation setting up gun shops and trying to destroy the bill of rights and the second amendment? why do new yorkers insist that every single movie made in the last decade be set inside new york city? why do new york politicians go around bragging that new york is the center of the universe? why does new york insist that they receive close to a billion dollars a year from american tax payers to protect themselves from terrorists that they provoke, and at the same time prevent americas other large cities from receiving even a fraction of that amount? why when americans sent them billions after 9-11, and the government billions more, did they complain about the citizens of new orleans buying 40 ounces of beer with american tax dollars after they lost their entire city? why do new yorkers believe that all of our so called "national news" should be in new york city? cbs, nbc, abc, fox news, cnn, and on and on. all i'm saying is that maybe new yorkers should remember that there are 49 other states in this great nation and every one of them is just as important as new york. so who should take it down a notch? to the folks of kansas, missouri, illinois, indiana, ohio, michigan, tennesee, kentucky, alabama, georgia, louisiana, mississippi, arkansas, etc. the western theater of the civil war was just as important as the east. you can't make a civil war game that leaves us out. i honestly hope that you're not offended by that. i love matrix games, and i love forge of freedom. maybe if there is going to be a region specific expansion, it could contain both a western theater and an eastern theater campaign.

[elcidce]

why does new york insist that they receive close to a billion dollars a year from american tax payers to protect themselves from terrorists that they provoke

This thread has taken a bad turn. Im sure it will be locked up. Please post or pm me the way that NY provokes terrorists? That statement is disturbing and makes me ill to think that someone thinks like that. I suppose the workers in the WTC deserved to die according to your diatribe.

[lawbreaker]

 i'm not sure exactly what i said to get my post locked. i was asked a question and i answered it. elcidce, don't be so quick to trample on freedom of speech in this great nation just because it's an opinion you happen to disagree with.  

[Harbinger]

uhh...yeah. I agree. Simply because one does not agree with an opinion does not make the opinion invalid. I've seen way too much of this attitude on way to many forums. If anything needs to be "taken down a notch" it's the prevailing attitude that "I'm the only one that counts."
 
~i~

[Rexor]

ORIGINAL: Harbinger

uhh...yeah. I agree. Simply because one does not agree with an opinion does not make the opinion invalid. I've seen way too much of this attitude on way to many forums. If anything needs to be "taken down a notch" it's the prevailing attitude that "I'm the only one that counts."
 
~i~

Fair enough. I'm just not sure a forum about the greatness of FoF is the appropriate place for a screed against New Yorkers. That's all. I'm certainly not opposed to the expression of opinions. I just wonder why lawbreaker couldn't express his admiration for the game without venting some pent-up rage against people in another region of the country. I have posted on all manner of game forums without feeling compelled to write about folks from another state, whatever my opinions about them. Is there any need, on this website of all places, to throw unprovoked insults?

[lawbreaker]

the thing about new yorkers running was a joke. lighten up. my response to what i have against new yorkers was an answer to a question you asked. don't ask a question in a thread, and then when you receive an answer say, that the thread is not the appropriate place for the answer. harbringer is absolutely correct, to many websites squash free speech and use as an excuse to do it, the line that it's not the appropriate place for it. but that road is a slippery slope. if we reject first ammendment protections for people who say things that we disagree with, then we eventually reject first ammendment protections for everybody. and if thats the case, then we should just crinkle up the bill of rights, and delegate it to the dust bin of history.

[Rexor]

I'm not asking anyone to squash your free speech, or even to prevent you from offering your opinion. There's no need for some authority to put the kibosh on the discussion or to even get involved. The question about appropriateness was directed at you, not Matrix (or the government, for that matter, god forbid). If you have the right to post your opinion (and you do), I certainly have the right to question its relevance to the subject matter.

[elcidce]

Lawbreaker,
Typical garbage response from someone who cant support his argument. I am some how suppressing your freedom of speech by disagreeing with you. Your opinion should be valid but not others?

How ironic dont you think. If I disagree then I am preventing you from having your Free Speech. In order to express this you want to call my opinion an attempt to censor your opinion. Pathetic.

If you had been around here long enough you would know that there is a dedicated area for political psycho-babble like you're writing. Post it at the steak house not in FOF forums.

Rexor I agree but he doesnt get it.

[lawbreaker]

rexor, it would appear we have reached an agreement. feel free to disagree with anything i say in the future, after all, true wisdom is recognizing that we don't know anything. we have settled our minor disagreement amicably, and all without the need of any interference from an orwellian police state. it would appear that there may be hope for our young republic after all.

[Rexor]

ORIGINAL: lawbreaker

it would appear that there may be hope for our young republic after all.

Don't bet on it. [;)]

By the way, I have no problem with your mentioning New Yorkers running--that was 140 years ago, and often true. Modern New Yorkers, it would interest you to know, are a good lot overall. I lived there for twelve rewarding years and got to know a great many of them well--and many of them were in the publishing industry. [8|]

[lawbreaker]

 i stand corrected rexor. after all, the fat boys and run d.m.c. were new yorkers, and i don't care what anybody says, they were cool. and hey elcidce, you are absolutely correct, this thread has gotten slightly off topic. so lets return to the civil war. i couldn't help but notice that you're from south carolina. are you sure that some of this pent up aggression toward me isn't caused by some of those..., well you know,... accidental fires that us midwesterners might have started on shermans umm.., little visit? because if it is man, we're sorry already,  cool? lets let bygones be bygones okay?

[Harbinger]

heh heh....Awesome game. It can only get better from here with the patches and updates planned.
 
~i~

[lawbreaker]

that it is harbringer, that it is.

[Rexor]

My only issue with FoF is the naval aspect. Everything else about the game is inspired, but I need to have my gunboat-ironclad fix. That's why I started playing Gary Grigsby's War Between the States, which models naval action pretty well. In FoF, the land war seems to go on without any conflict on the rivers or along the coast. Of course, I only play the AI, which may have something to do with it. But the South seems incapable of allocating enough resources to build even one ironclad in this game.