Aircraft Upgrade Paths!

[jcjordan]

Shouldn't the Wirraway's upgrade to P40 Kitthawks before going to Boomerangs? Also is there a list of when the replacement start for each A/C?

[Erik Rutins]

For the moment, you can check your air reinforcements list. For many of the replacement types, there are similarly equipped squadrons arriving right around the time the replacements start. While there are exceptions, this is a good rule of thumb for estimating (within about two weeks) when you will start seeing that type of plane appearing in significant numbers.

Regards,

- Erik

[Reg]

Originally posted by jcjordan
Shouldn't the Wirraway's upgrade to P40 Kitthawks before going to Boomerangs? Also is there a list of when the replacement start for each A/C?

No RAAF squadrons relinquished their Kittyhawks for Boomerangs though several squadrons (Nos. 4, 5 (in 1945), and 84 (Sep'43)) went the other way.

Wirraways formed the initial complement of most squadrons (both bomber and fighter) as that's all that was available in the early years.

Note that the 70 series squadrons were formed with P-40s as the aircraft arrived from the U.S. (No. 75 Squadron was in action at Port Moresby fourteen days after being formed!! - and this includes transit time.....)

Cheers,
Reg.

[HARD_SARGE]

Hi Rich
oops, guess I am late since the patch came out already, but for the OOB, could you look at the P-61 (ever since BTR) it has 4 20 mm in the TT and 4 50 Cal in the F, it should be the other way around, the 50 Cals were in the top turret (we finally got it change in the next version of BTR)

HARD_Sarge

[Rich Dionne]

Originally posted by HARD_SARGE
Hi Rich
oops, guess I am late since the patch came out already, but for the OOB, could you look at the P-61 (ever since BTR) it has 4 20 mm in the TT and 4 50 Cal in the F, it should be the other way around, the 50 Cals were in the top turret (we finally got it change in the next version of BTR)

HARD_Sarge

I wasn't able to get all the OOB changes I wanted into this patch. But I'll look into it for the next one.

Thanks,

Rich

[HARD_SARGE]

Hi Rich
Thank you sir
don't know if it will make as much difference in UV as it does in BTR, but it is still backwards

HARD_Sarge

[jcjordan]

Any ideas on when the Beauf VIC starts? I've had several sqdns of Hudsons, Beauforts & a Beauf VIC for several months with only a couple of Hudsons coming in as replacements. I'm playing the full campaign, scenario 17?

[tanjman]

jcjordan,

I'm not sure when they start arriving in scenario 17, but I've opened up all the scenarios to make a list of which aircraft arrived when and how many a month. And the the Beaufighter VIC shows up at least by 2/15/43 (I didn't write down which scenario) at 20 per month.

Hope this helps.

[worr]

Originally posted by Rich Dionne


Thanks Worr, yes, flew their first combat mission on 12 Aug 43 out of PM. I don't know how that was missed, but I'll remedy the situation.

Regards,

Rich

Great to here it!

Worr, out

[GulfXray]

Originally posted by tanjman
jcjordan,

I'm not sure when they start arriving in scenario 17, but I've opened up all the scenarios to make a list of which aircraft arrived when and how many a month. And the the Beaufighter VIC shows up at least by 2/15/43 (I didn't write down which scenario) at 20 per month.

Hope this helps.

Tanjman, do you still have the list you referred do and would you be willing to share it? I'm not as historically literate on a/c types and availability as some folks, so I was looking for a timeline that I could 'marry up' with the upgrade path so I would now when to expect what.

Thanks in Advance....

[Reg]

Historically, No. 30 Squadron was formed with Beaufighter 1C aircraft during Jun '42 and arrived in Port Moresby Sep 12, 1942 though a detachment of three aircraft was sent to Milne Bay (Gili Gili) at the end of that battle.

The first Mk.VIC aircraft arrived Nov '42 and Mk.X/XI were delivered from mid 1943. All these variants are being treated as a single generic type in the game as there are few significant differences between them.

As I have stated elsewhere, I think the Beaufighter is over represented in the game as there were only ever 5 squadrons equipped with the type, Nos. 30 and 31 in 1942, No. 22 in 1944 and Nos. 92 and 93 in 1945.

The game's upgrade paths are also misleading as the only squadron that reequipped with Beaufighters was No. 22 Squadron who ran out of replacement Boston aircraft in late 1944. The Beaufighter Mk 21 replaced the Beaufort on the local production lines though the original intention was to produce them side by side(delays in the Beaufighter program prevented that). I think there may have been plans to reequip the Beaufort squadrons with locally produced Beaufighters but local production didn't kick in until mid/late '44 and as it turned out, new squadrons were formed (No.s 92 & 93) rather than reequipping old squadrons.

You could play a variant where local production was not delayed and I suppose that replacement of Beauforts would have occurred.

Hope yo find this useful,
Reg.

[jcjordan]

FYI, in my current campaign game I started to receive the Beaufighter on Jan 43 at a rate of 20. I've played the first few days but haven't received any. The Boomerang started in Dec 42 at a rate of 6.

[Grotius]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I have a further question about upgrade paths. I know the paths -- I've printed out the .pdf files describing them -- but not the timeline. And I know there must be 125-133% of the required planes in the replacement pool. But the timing of upgrades eludes me.

E.g., as the Allies, *when* do the F4F-3's upgrade? As the IJN, when does the Claude turn into a Zero? Just as soon as there are enough replacement planes to fill a full squadron?

[NAVMAN]

Based on my readings, the official reason that the B-17 was replaced by the B-24, was that the '24 had a longer range, usefull in Pacific operations. The unofficial reason was that the '17 was the weapon of choice in the ETO due to its durability and faith that the aircrews had in the aircraft. In short, it was considered more survivable in what was considered to be the toughest theater of the air war.

[derwho]

E.g., as the Allies, *when* do the F4F-3's upgrade? As the IJN, when does the Claude turn into a Zero? Just as soon as there are enough replacement planes to fill a full squadron?

Yes, just as soon. Sometimes I've noticed that not on the exact turn when you have the necessary aircraft in your pool but the next one.

I pointed this out to Ross Moorhouse but I might as well say it aloud here if anyone has anything to comment.

As a keen user of floatplanes (to quote Ross: "I hate you.") as convoy raiders I feel that the upgrade paths for IJN floatplanes are flawed. Based on my understanding the path should be:

F1M2->E1A3->E8N or E7K2

Now the Pete's (which are crappy and utterly useless in any duty) don't upgrade to anything. IJN ASW is already hard enough without this drawback.

I totally understand that this propably won't be fixed for UV but I hope the issue will be dealt in WiTP.

[crsutton]

Yes, by the luck of the draw B17s got sent to Europe because they were considered tougher than the B24s. This was also the case with the Marauder which was the preferred bomber in Europe. So the Pacific theater got "stuck" with the liberator and mitchell bombers. A most fortunate accident. The liberator although not as tough as the 17, was still an American built plane and tough by any standard and more than able to hold it's own against the pitiful Zero. The liberator could carry a bigger bomb load, more fuel and was much easier to adapt to multiple duties than the B17. The mitchell excelled in its comparive simplicity and ease to fly. No small matter in a theater where parts were scarce and maitainence at best average-and where the skills of young pilots arriving in theater was at best average. Both planes turned out to be excellent choices for the Pacific theater.

[NAVMAN]

crsutton:you are right about the performance of the '24 as compared to '17, as well as its versatility. It's my understanding
that a large part of the '24's performance was due to the "Davis"
wing. Although this imparted enhanced performance, for its time, it also made the aircraft, vis-a vis the '17, harder and more fatiguing to fly at altitude as well as being a less stable bombing platform. The characteristic of the '24 to catch fire in the wing tanks may be due to the wing design. I would take the B-25.As you probably know, the B-26 was initially given the title of "The Widow Maker." It was a "hot" airplane for its time and the crews needed to catch up with its performance. A more modern parallel can be found when the post-war German airforce transitioned to the F-104. They had a very high accident rate initially.

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Rich Dionne
was wondering, since nothing upgrades to the P-47 c ,why does it start being built so early ?

I got around 47-50 of them in stock, and think I still got around 2 months to go before the 3 squadrons come in ? (4-9-43)

HARD_Sarge

[Rich Dionne]

Originally posted by Hard Sarge
Hi Rich Dionne
was wondering, since nothing upgrades to the P-47 c ,why does it start being built so early ?

I got around 47-50 of them in stock, and think I still got around 2 months to go before the 3 squadrons come in ? (4-9-43)

HARD_Sarge

Hard Sarge,

Sounds like the availability date of the aircraft type is a bit out of sync with the associated air group arrival dates. I'll check it out.

Regards,

Rich Dionne

[Hard Sarge]

Thanks for the reply

yea I got 93 47 C's in stock, and 53 days till, I get the 3 47 squadrons


HARD_Sarge