Naval Supply Question

[explorer2]

In World at War, Tom's vs33c and before, ships can stay at sea for 12 turns.

I've seen comments here saying this is too long, and I've seen comments saying this is not long enough.
I've tried looking on the internet to see how long ships actually stayed at sea during WWII, and get very inconclusive results. Biggest variable seems to be that most ships were resupplied at sea, sometimes came into very minor ports, and seemed to have had to return to a major "base" less often.

I'm working on adjusting some of the naval values (BB bombardment too strong, impervious to land based planes) and would like to make the frequency of the need to come to port as accurate as possible.
Does anybody have any info on this, or can point me to a place that does?

Thanks so much.

[Twotribes]

12 turns is reasonable given we have no ability to refuel at sea. Hell in the generic game it is 20 turns.

[82ndtrooper]

in world war II the usa actually pioneered the concept of resupplying fleets at sea and used this new concept to keep fleets at sea for months which was vital to our victory in the pacific.
it consisted of supply convoys the new technology of shooting guy lines across to another ship then pulling the fuel hoses across and refueling them, also the transferring of hard materials like food and ammo while at sea and underway. It was a huge logistical challenge that most people overlooked but admiral Nimitz got it done.
This is still in use today by navies all over the world but it was first devolped in the pacific. (there where other factors involved that helped like the invention and use of radar which allowed these convoys to locate the fleets they needed to supply)
 
 
In fact the whole supply convoy system was invented by the usa first during the battle of britian when the german u-boats where wreaking such havoc in the mid atlantic,and the US wasnt supposed to be in the war. Up untill that time merchant ships where going to britian in ones and twos and getting eaten alive by the wolfpacks, once the convoys where put in place with US naval escorts the tide started to turn.
 
Most people dont realise what a horrific bloodbath the mid-atlantic was and how many US merchant marines(all civilians and all volunteers) gave their lifes to help britian long before the US entered the war.
 
 
ps: i am a military history buff.
 
 

[explorer2]

Wow, 82nd trooper, thanks for the info.
I knew about the way we resupplied in the Pacific, but I didn't know USA was first and it wasn't used in other theatres.

In light of all of this, and you good knowledge, how would you suggest I set the number of turns a ship can stay at sea?
I'm not going to make different units for Pacific and Atlantic, nor different ones for German, USA, British, and Japanese, which sounds like it would be the most accurate method.

THe default WaW has it set for 12 turns. I'm thinking of putting it at 9 just to make it so there's more activity coming and going.

Did subs have a typically longer or typically shorter time at sea than surface vessels?

Thanks for all your expertise.

[82ndtrooper]

ok here is a web page for the complete chronologic report of all US naval events in world war two. its a lot of info but if you researched it I am sure you could find out the deployment times but would take a little work.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN-Chron.html

and here if you look on the right side there is a chronology of the USS Enterprise CV-6  that starts in january of 1944 in the marshall islands and ends with her going to hawaii for repairs in june  thats 6 months and dosnt include the time it took to arrive in the marshall islands. then she departs pearl and continues on deployment at least untill november of 44. So i would think 6 months minimum for a average deployment in the later years of the war once we got the supply system worked out and i would think they could have stayed out to sea as long as needed only the wear and tear on the crews would really limit it.

http://www.cv6.org/1944/1944.htm


for the better part of a year the CV-6 (USS Enterprise) was the only operating us navy carrier in the pacific and she held the line by herself, giving the us time to build more carriers. She fought in all but 2 of the 20 major naval engagements in the pacific and was the only carrier to survive a concentrated japanese attack.  She is the most famous ship in the history of the USN.


Ill have to check on the deployment times for the subs

[82ndtrooper]

ok that was easy 
 
the sub patrols typicaly lasted 3 months due to the hardships on the crews of the submarines. They could be shorter if they expended all their torpedos.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gato_%28SS-212%29

[explorer2]

Great sites 82ndtrooper!
Amazing detail on the chronology site, and engaging reading on the Enterprise site.
I think I'll settle on 9 months supply carry. Obviously some ships at some times from some countries could stay out longer, but I think that will not be grossly inaccurate and will make for pretty good gameplay.

Thanks for your help.

Any info on subs length of time at sea also greatly appreciated.

[82ndtrooper]

ORIGINAL: explorer2

Great sites 82ndtrooper!
Amazing detail on the chronology site, and engaging reading on the Enterprise site.
I think I'll settle on 9 months supply carry. Obviously some ships at some times from some countries could stay out longer, but I think that will not be grossly inaccurate and will make for pretty good gameplay.

Thanks for your help.

Any info on subs length of time at sea also greatly appreciated.

Submarine patrols in WWII where schedualed for 3 months due to the wear on the crews, they could be shorter if the sub used up all its torpedos

[explorer2]

Wow, that's short!
In WWII, didn't U-boat crews and ships use Portugal as a port of call? I can't do that in WaW with them neutral.
In WaW with default ship movement, it takes 2 turns just to get to the midAtlantic from Hamburg.

Think I'll give them 6 turns for now, allows Germans time to get to North America coast, sit 2 turns, and get back (if not discovered first!)

Thanks so much for your help.

[82ndtrooper]

well that was the american sub patrols  not the  germans, the germans where the masters of submarine warfare. 
 
the germans actually had mother subs that would resupply the wolfpacks at sea.  so i would make the sub patrols the the same as the ships.

[explorer2]

Great clarification. Thanks. I'll take your suggestion.

[82ndtrooper]

glad to help I really like your version of WaW and am looking forward to this release

[explorer2]

Thanks. I've got what I think are some significant changes coming. Hoping to be done soon. Maybe we could play as a first run through?

[82ndtrooper]

sounds good to me just let me know and ill be glad to play test it.