While I am at it!

[wphyzic]

Here are a few other things that need fixing:

1) Spotting for artillery/mortars: News Flash! Ya cant spot for arty/mortars without a radio! In the US army in WWII, radios were at best on a platoon level (therefore zugtrupp/Platoon leader only) and in every tank/TD. I am not sure about american halftracks. German 251's had radios, I am not sure about 250's. Even preregistered targets require radio commo, although an astute Platoon Leader would not need a direct line of sight. Predetermined targets are perhaps the MOST important part of planning an attack/defense and it is notably absent in the game. It would be easy to include in the game engine. As a former FO (I had many different jobs in my service time), my opinion on the accuracy of indirect fire in the game is that the current model is ok. Mortars are VERY accurate if fire can be adjusted via radio.
As far as the off map stuff goes, you should have to predetermine a set number of locations (we used to pay special attention to "dead zones" used for assembly areas protected from direct fire). If you shift from these predetermined locations and the area shifted to is under observation from a radio equipped unit, there should be no penalty. If no obs/radio is available, the accuracy should go to hell if fire is shifted blind.

2) And the worst flaw: The problem with large crew served weapons being fodder for indirect fire is not due to any flaws in the game engine! Another News flash! No large crew served weapon/light armored weapon platform EVER stays put in combat unless it is heavily dug in, whether now or in WWII. It was common practice to practically KEEP THE GUN HITCHED TO THE TOW VEHICLE in the Wehrmacht in fluid situations so position could be shifted (look at some pictures of 88's in action in North Africa). Put tow vehicles into the game engine before ANY other future additions and this already good simulation will become awesome. to say that they were not used in scale of the game is just plain b------t.

3) Next worst flaw: Evidently CC is in a parallel universe where no one has taught any of the infantry/AT/mortar crews how to prepare a fighting position. Give me a few hours a few spare sets of hands, two or three entrenching tools, one pickaxe and a few tree limbs and you can shell me all day and waste ammo to your hearts content. The frozen ground argument is crap. Dig down 6 to 9 inches and yer set. ALL american and german vehicles carried picks to break up frozen ground. true, they were not always available and this could be dealt with, but the protection offered by digging in is laughable. A well-prepared fighting position is almost impervious to anything but airbursts and direct hits and 12 hours is plenty of time to build overhead cover (the no-move, dug in rule).

4) And the next: No infantryman in his right mind walks when he can ride. Halftracks were SPECIFICALLY designed to protect infantry from indirect fire/small arms fire and deliver them as close to the engagement as possible (sometimes within 50 meters, check some photos from WWII). This was especially true when a concealed route was available. I for one would much rather risk getting hit by direct fire than get shredded by small arms and indirect (9% + 80%[respectively]=89% of WWII casualties, remember?). By 1944 the Germans used the "Panzerblitz" assualt whenever possible(this from my German foster father-he was THERE assaulting Bastogne in the 15th PG), with the infantry huddled behind the turrets of the assualting tanks. I realize that the game designers have said that this would be tough to include in the code, but you guys are SO close to an incredible simulation model that you really need to roll up your sleeves and do it).

I'll stop ranting....

Great game, could be better....

[TheReal_Pak40]

1) The off board artillery model in WaR is pretty much a joke. This is pretty much common knowledge and has been talked about before on this site. It's way too accurate, comes in way too fast (within seconds), and doesn't even need a spotter, much less a spotter with a radio. If you want more realism then Combat Mission series is better. Maybe not exact but better.

2) It's kind of hard to camouflage a gun when you have a vehicle next to it. It sort of defeats the purpose. But, I do agree, it would be nice to have the ability to tow a gun. Again, Combat Mission has this ability.

3) I agree. Men can be killed way to easily in prepared positions, even in a prone position. Once again, Combat Mission handles this better IMO.

4) I think most people will disagree with this statement. Yes, there are pictures and there were tactics used where troops rode into battle on a tank or armored vehicle, but this was not common practice. Armored vehicles tend to attract anti-armored rounds which tend to kill the occupants. So, depending on the situation, it was much more effective for the infantry to support the armored units on foot. The back of a tank is probably the most exposed place infantry can be. I know some people like to think of it as a haven from gunfire but in fact it's a lot more exposed than lying prone on the ground, especially from artillery and MG fire. Besides, with most WWII tanks you could only effectively put 3 or 4 men behind a turret, not an entire squad or even half-squad. Again, Combat Mission models the ability to do this but the infantry will usually hop off as soon as the tank is fired upon. You can also put infantry into half tracks and trucks but you will sorely disappointed if you try to ride them into battle in this fashion. An anti-tank or HE round will easily ruin your day if you take this approach. It may work in certain situations where you're sure there isn't an anti-armored threat to your halftrack, but I've had way too many surprises in Combat Mission and have pretty much abandoned this tactic.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: wphyzic

Here are a few other things that need fixing:

1) Spotting for artillery/mortars: News Flash! Ya cant spot for arty/mortars without a radio! In the US army in WWII, radios were at best on a platoon level (therefore zugtrupp/Platoon leader only) and in every tank/TD. I am not sure about american halftracks. German 251's had radios, I am not sure about 250's. Even preregistered targets require radio commo, although an astute Platoon Leader would not need a direct line of sight. Predetermined targets are perhaps the MOST important part of planning an attack/defense and it is notably absent in the game. It would be easy to include in the game engine. As a former FO (I had many different jobs in my service time), my opinion on the accuracy of indirect fire in the game is that the current model is ok. Mortars are VERY accurate if fire can be adjusted via radio.
As far as the off map stuff goes, you should have to predetermine a set number of locations (we used to pay special attention to "dead zones" used for assembly areas protected from direct fire). If you shift from these predetermined locations and the area shifted to is under observation from a radio equipped unit, there should be no penalty. If no obs/radio is available, the accuracy should go to hell if fire is shifted blind.

The fire support is just a gimmick taken straight out of Command & Conquer series that was introduced because, apparently, Atomic Games didn't have any good ideas for improving the tactical game. Realism was the last thing that they were going for with their "innovation" - frankly, they didn't care about how the artillery was used in reality just as they didn't care about a realistic command structure - hell, this game has one person commanding every single friendly unit on battlefield and commanding whole operation at the same time - in comparison to that, instant artillery is nothing significant.
If you want realistic arty, CCMT2 probably would have it.

ORIGINAL: TheReal_Pak40

4) I think most people will disagree with this statement. Yes, there are pictures and there were tactics used where troops rode into battle on a tank or armored vehicle, but this was not common practice. Armored vehicles tend to attract anti-armored rounds which tend to kill the occupants. So, depending on the situation, it was much more effective for the infantry to support the armored units on foot.

I found mounting infantry on Half-Tracks pretty effective when playing Senior Drill's WWII mod for CCMT. Half-tracks may attract anti-armor fire, but infantry attracts anti-infantry fire which makes it stop. Also, speed of half-tracks can save the infantry from mortar/arty fire.